I like phones with user controlled root of trust. I like phones that can run mainline Linux (let's not get into the debate over security, it's not there yet, but they'll get there eventually). This, however, is going to be ewaste on launch, and knowing the way the Librem 5 launched (has every order been fulfilled yet?), getting it will be an unmitigated disaster. 8 A55 equivalent cores running at 1.6ghz, RVA22 instead of RVA23, launching in 2028! It will be quite literally the slowest phone you could spend money on at its launch date, given that the by-then ANCIENT Snapdragon 4s Gen 2 you can get in a $20 flip phone from Walmart Right Now has performance cores that look like F1 cars in comparison.
Dawg I am literally an FSF associate member, I own a Talos II, I port phones to mainline Linux, I had their sticker on my car!
On your first point:
Reading around (you can find a lot of these experiences on HN itself), it seems pretty obvious that order loads reduced later in the Librem 5's lifetime due to chargebacks, allowing them to fulfill all remaining backer orders. Even if they did, why the fuck would I want to play that roulette again! Receiving a phone with 2015 specs in 2023 because you expected it several _YEARS_ earlier isn't any sort of consolation. I don't even necessarily like Pine64's approach to hardware development and the Pinephone has similar problems but at least those ended up in people's hands way, way sooner.
On the rest:
The specs are worthy of complaining about, you freetard. What point is any phone, even a libre one if I can't reasonably expect to do anything useful with it as a computing device! 8 slow ass in-order cores aren't going to handle even basic tasks like web browsing well anymore (judging by my MSM89x7/MSM8953 mainlining experiences). So you get your freedom phone in 2028, the bloat isn't ever getting better, and the result is a blob-less dumbphone that can't accomplish any of the tasks a phone is expected to be capable of, plus you spent flagship money on it!
We're not even on step one of freeing phones, which is most phones being capable of running user-modifiable operating systems that have reasonable user freedom. This is "cool" but really a waste of money unless you're the very specific kind of person that values "zero blobs" over "literally anything else". What good does freedom do me if it can't spend?
And that $20 flip phone? That's a TCL Flip 4 5G. It's root-of-trust is the AOSP test keys, so you can run whatever the fuck you want on it provided you're willing to port it.
I also feel completely puzzled about their choice.
I've been daily driving the L5 v1 since 2023, and while it's true that performance has improved since then, it's still a huge regression when you come from any flagship or even mid-tier phone.
Examples:
1. Can't scroll on some websites that use CSS effects because they render at ~ 1 fps so you can no longer tell where your scroll position is.
2. The browser keeps alerting me that my password manager extension is slowing it down. (It's never done so on other phones)
3. The Signal app (Flatpak, based on Electron) has a startup time of several minutes.
I'm now used to it but come on, Purism is going to pick a SoC for its next gen with less memory bandwidth (and possibly weaker single-core performance) than the i.MX M8 Quad?
The only plausible explanation I've been able to Stockholm together from all this is that some of the engineers at Purism must have vastly different phone usage patterns than I do.
I had the first one. After literal years of delays, the delivery was still an unfinished product. Only a few cell networks were supported. The phone calls had terrible echo problems, and the picture quality from the camera looked like a disposable camera from 25 years ago.
While the page is publicly accessible, I think this is still meant to be under embargo and not shared broadly. From their newsletter: “Contents of this campaign page are under embargo. They are not to be publicly shared prior to our official launch on November 17th.”
Thanks for pointing that out. My apologies. I did not and do not see that notice on the website.
I received an email regarding the announcement. It didn't include any specifications so I searched "Librem 5 v2" and found this page.
After looking again at the unsolicited email I received - I see the disclaimer at the bottom in italicized text which I've been trained to ignore. It's regrettable the embargo notice was not the first paragraph of the email.
I'm not really sure what to do now. It doesn't appear I can delete a post.
I also received this email, presumably because I bought the original Librem 5.
Recipients aren't under any obligation to respect their request for an embargo if they're just cold-emailing people like this, and it's newsworthy for HN, so I don't see the problem?
Yeah I agree it's not a big problem, and OP shouldn't feel bad.
I only call it out to note this page shouldn't be taken as reflecting the level of polish Purism would want in a broadly shared release. Especially given the lack of a video and narrative launch announcement.
I wonder if the K1 is going to be an appropriate chip for a 2028 smartphone?
Will it even be able to drive an external 4K display like the i.MX 8M Quad on the Librem 5 v1? If not, the convergence feature becomes moot. Life is too short to deal with blurry text on your monitor.
I want Purism to succeed, they’ve been an important catalyst for the Linux phone ecosystem. But this is just eye watering. $1600 plus taxes and shipping to the EU amounts to 2000 EUR.
Never again. I waited 3 years to receive the v1.
The software was somewhat nice so I had the best expectations. Then I found out it becomes a paperweight in 2 hours due to battery life.
Very low spec on every point, expensive, and most of all, not sure they can deliver. But very interesting to see them trying to do a Risc-V phone. I will follow this closely and hope they will succeed.
I realize you’re half joking but the v1 actually sockets both the modem card and the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth card. The v2 will continue to socket the modem at the very least.
I had the first Librem 5 in hand. It kinda-sorta took photos with random acts of green lightning obscuring most of the image.
Now, at double the price, what do you think we'll get? I'd be the first to buy something proven that runs Linux and that I control from ring -1 and up… but I'll eat Paul Stamet's amadou hat off his head if that happens.
These "purists" might be willing to accept a device that is a the mobile equivalent of the clanker car in the name of "pure" FOSS code; most people wont.. especially not at that price. I'm convinced this is some millionaire's pet project.
I like phones with user controlled root of trust. I like phones that can run mainline Linux (let's not get into the debate over security, it's not there yet, but they'll get there eventually). This, however, is going to be ewaste on launch, and knowing the way the Librem 5 launched (has every order been fulfilled yet?), getting it will be an unmitigated disaster. 8 A55 equivalent cores running at 1.6ghz, RVA22 instead of RVA23, launching in 2028! It will be quite literally the slowest phone you could spend money on at its launch date, given that the by-then ANCIENT Snapdragon 4s Gen 2 you can get in a $20 flip phone from Walmart Right Now has performance cores that look like F1 cars in comparison.
> has every order been fulfilled yet?
Yes, and it's mentioned in TFA.
> the slowest phone you could spend money on
https://puri.sm/posts/the-danger-of-focusing-on-specs/
> ANCIENT Snapdragon 4s Gen 2 you can get in a $20 flip phone from Walmart Right Now has performance cores
And you will not control your main computing device, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24463347
Are you missing the whole point of computing freedom? I suggest you to read the FSF: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-impor...
> And you will not control your main computing device
If the device isn’t useful, what’s the point?
It is useful. I use it as a daily driver.
Dawg I am literally an FSF associate member, I own a Talos II, I port phones to mainline Linux, I had their sticker on my car!
On your first point: Reading around (you can find a lot of these experiences on HN itself), it seems pretty obvious that order loads reduced later in the Librem 5's lifetime due to chargebacks, allowing them to fulfill all remaining backer orders. Even if they did, why the fuck would I want to play that roulette again! Receiving a phone with 2015 specs in 2023 because you expected it several _YEARS_ earlier isn't any sort of consolation. I don't even necessarily like Pine64's approach to hardware development and the Pinephone has similar problems but at least those ended up in people's hands way, way sooner.
On the rest: The specs are worthy of complaining about, you freetard. What point is any phone, even a libre one if I can't reasonably expect to do anything useful with it as a computing device! 8 slow ass in-order cores aren't going to handle even basic tasks like web browsing well anymore (judging by my MSM89x7/MSM8953 mainlining experiences). So you get your freedom phone in 2028, the bloat isn't ever getting better, and the result is a blob-less dumbphone that can't accomplish any of the tasks a phone is expected to be capable of, plus you spent flagship money on it!
We're not even on step one of freeing phones, which is most phones being capable of running user-modifiable operating systems that have reasonable user freedom. This is "cool" but really a waste of money unless you're the very specific kind of person that values "zero blobs" over "literally anything else". What good does freedom do me if it can't spend?
And that $20 flip phone? That's a TCL Flip 4 5G. It's root-of-trust is the AOSP test keys, so you can run whatever the fuck you want on it provided you're willing to port it.
(insert gahnoo/car meme here)
I also feel completely puzzled about their choice.
I've been daily driving the L5 v1 since 2023, and while it's true that performance has improved since then, it's still a huge regression when you come from any flagship or even mid-tier phone.
Examples:
1. Can't scroll on some websites that use CSS effects because they render at ~ 1 fps so you can no longer tell where your scroll position is.
2. The browser keeps alerting me that my password manager extension is slowing it down. (It's never done so on other phones)
3. The Signal app (Flatpak, based on Electron) has a startup time of several minutes.
I'm now used to it but come on, Purism is going to pick a SoC for its next gen with less memory bandwidth (and possibly weaker single-core performance) than the i.MX M8 Quad?
The only plausible explanation I've been able to Stockholm together from all this is that some of the engineers at Purism must have vastly different phone usage patterns than I do.
I had the first one. After literal years of delays, the delivery was still an unfinished product. Only a few cell networks were supported. The phone calls had terrible echo problems, and the picture quality from the camera looked like a disposable camera from 25 years ago.
While the page is publicly accessible, I think this is still meant to be under embargo and not shared broadly. From their newsletter: “Contents of this campaign page are under embargo. They are not to be publicly shared prior to our official launch on November 17th.”
Thanks for pointing that out. My apologies. I did not and do not see that notice on the website.
I received an email regarding the announcement. It didn't include any specifications so I searched "Librem 5 v2" and found this page.
After looking again at the unsolicited email I received - I see the disclaimer at the bottom in italicized text which I've been trained to ignore. It's regrettable the embargo notice was not the first paragraph of the email.
I'm not really sure what to do now. It doesn't appear I can delete a post.
You may want to write to hn@ycombinator.com.
Folks seeing this can also flag it. Will likely get their attention faster.
Flagging does not necessary bring attention of the mods. It just hides the submission from those who did not turn on "show dead".
I also received this email, presumably because I bought the original Librem 5.
Recipients aren't under any obligation to respect their request for an embargo if they're just cold-emailing people like this, and it's newsworthy for HN, so I don't see the problem?
Yeah I agree it's not a big problem, and OP shouldn't feel bad.
I only call it out to note this page shouldn't be taken as reflecting the level of polish Purism would want in a broadly shared release. Especially given the lack of a video and narrative launch announcement.
I wonder if the K1 is going to be an appropriate chip for a 2028 smartphone?
Will it even be able to drive an external 4K display like the i.MX 8M Quad on the Librem 5 v1? If not, the convergence feature becomes moot. Life is too short to deal with blurry text on your monitor.
I want Purism to succeed, they’ve been an important catalyst for the Linux phone ecosystem. But this is just eye watering. $1600 plus taxes and shipping to the EU amounts to 2000 EUR.
Never again. I waited 3 years to receive the v1. The software was somewhat nice so I had the best expectations. Then I found out it becomes a paperweight in 2 hours due to battery life.
The phone didn't even have suspend at that time. Your experience is completely obsolete now, https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-battery-life-improved-by-100/
Very low spec on every point, expensive, and most of all, not sure they can deliver. But very interesting to see them trying to do a Risc-V phone. I will follow this closely and hope they will succeed.
Probably worth mentioning the problems that many people had with receiving either a product or a refund with the first Librem 5: https://sk500.online/tech/the-purism-libre-5-and-the-six-yea...
No thanks, first gen delays were not acceptables.
4 years for a kickstarter phone is not okay.
Not acceptable for what? It's my daily driver now.
Would have been sweet to socket the CPU/RAM on a single edge connected PCB to usher in a ATX of brick phones. I miss standards in computing...
I realize you’re half joking but the v1 actually sockets both the modem card and the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth card. The v2 will continue to socket the modem at the very least.
The only problem is $1600 is a price of 10 ordinary phones. For an experimental phone that might not even work properly.
It looks like there are so few people caring about freedom and privacy that it is not worth making a phone for them otherwise Chinese would make it.
No it's not. There's no "ordinary" phones at $160 or even $400 with 2026 RAM prices.
I had the first Librem 5 in hand. It kinda-sorta took photos with random acts of green lightning obscuring most of the image.
Now, at double the price, what do you think we'll get? I'd be the first to buy something proven that runs Linux and that I control from ring -1 and up… but I'll eat Paul Stamet's amadou hat off his head if that happens.
> It kinda-sorta took photos with random acts of green lightning obscuring most of the image.
This was fixed a while ago, and even before that you could just take the photo and develop it however you liked as raw DNGs are stored by default too.
> that runs Linux and that I control from ring -1 and up
I've been using such phones since 2008 and I believe I've got much more out of them during that time than I could ever get with Android.
"frees us all"
Nonsense. Impact comes with numbers.
At $1600 this will only cater to a tiny club of enthousiasts. And thus have negligable impact on the overall ecosystem.
Want impact? Make it cheap.
OP: Please, make a cheaper one then.
No technology becomes cheap and widespread right at the beginning.
Did not know that a shitty phone for 1600 dollars would give me freedom.
what are some non-shitty phones you recommend that do not spy on me and do not obey somebody else instead of me?
These "purists" might be willing to accept a device that is a the mobile equivalent of the clanker car in the name of "pure" FOSS code; most people wont.. especially not at that price. I'm convinced this is some millionaire's pet project.
non-RVA23 and 2028?!
DoA.
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