Denazification ended up with many former Nazis in public service and government. The allies realized they simply can’t find enough Germans who were not former Nazis to run the country.
I agree, and that's one of the major factors that prompted the student movements of '68 [0], which was a big cultural readjustment away from that sort of thing. History takes time. Culture doesn't shift overnight. But one has to set the right impulses where possible.
This feels very similar to the “abolish the police” rhetoric we heard during the George Floyd stuff.
I’m genuinely curious about what your opinion actually means here. If we abolish ICE are you saying that we should never deport anyone? If someone manages to sneak across the border they have a right to live here forever?
I'm saying we dismantle the sprawling security state that was built in the early aughts and replace it with something fair and humane. I'm not arguing to stop deportations. I'd prefer a far more humane, carefully considered set of policies — we don't need masked thugs in the streets killing civilians, we don't need camps and detention centers operated by private companies profiting off of human suffering.
That doesn't look like an absolute stop to deportations, it does look like a stop to the madness and cruelty of the current administration and its supporters.
Deportations occurred before ICE and deportations can occur after ICE is dissolved. I'm genuinely curious at your questions. Do you believe people could just sneak across the border and live in United States forever before ICE existed, and that it somehow stopped with the formation of ICE?
I’m genuinely curious whether you've heard of the concept of a false dichotomy.
Australia has no ICE and yet somehow manages to deport people.
Perhaps it's less about the deportations of those that are genuinely evading the system and more about the deportations of those who have engaged with the pipeline, pay taxes, and still get shot by the masked thugs of Gregory Bovino who's too busy larping as a Nazi in a trenchcoat to pay heed to regular US laws.
>Perhaps it's less about the deportations of those that are genuinely evading the system
Hudreds of thousands of illegal immigrants have been deported and border crossings are near an all time low. The rest of your post is "everyone I don't like is a Nazi."
Pretty telling how you somehow seem to conflate deporting people who have no documentation, and committing human right abuses, sending people to their death, murdering US citizens, recruiting racists and alt-right extremists, and anyone. Improperly training agents, racial profiling. Abolishing an organization that engages in those things is a "rhetoric" to you. You clearly don't have any problem with any those things, the only thing you care about, is well, deporting those "illegals".
When congress flips there are going to be investigations, subpoenas, warrants, arrests, and convictions of thousands of people who did things under trump that they should not have done. Accountability is coming.
I don't expect that to happen. I suspect even the democrat politicians are internally happy that Trump has pushed boundaries of everything and has given a precedent. The new admin if it comes, would cherry pick all the delicious parts and put on backburner more controversial ones until it is ready to bring it out again.
Once power is corrupted, it is very hard to bring it back to more innocent times. The power of presidents have only increased under both parties.
> A spokesperson for DHS calls the case “meritless” and says that “the underlying lawsuit is based on the lie that there is a database of ‘domestic terrorists’ run by DHS.”
Wait, wouldn't you want/ expect DHS to maintain a database of domestic terrorists? That wasn't even the question!
> wouldn't you want/ expect DHS to maintain a database of domestic terrorists?
The problem is that they pretty-much classify anyone at a protest as a "domestic terrorist" these days, and I've personally met people who actually agree with that insane definition. We live in a mad mad world these days, and I don't really expect it to get better at this point.
> According to the legal filing, that afternoon, J.C. [an ICE agent] called [the spouse of an individual who had lawfully recorded an ICE detainment] on her cell phone, identifying himself only as "the Department of Homeland Security." According to [the call recipient], he told her she "should encourage" her spouse, [the observer], "not to do anything like that in the future because people who are doing things like that might get added to a domestic terrorism watchlist." J.C. testified in a deposition that he warned [the observer’s spouse] she would be arrested if she “continue[d] to do this.”
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone following US news, but we should be angry about it. Textbook intimidation.
> Government attorneys asserted in a court filing that [agent J.C.] denied referencing a “domestic terrorism watchlist.”
Hey guys, if you have a dashcam that can record at any time, start hitting that button when you think there might even be an inkling of an unmarked vehicle by you. Back up that footage and save it.
Small government to Republicans has _always_ meant "government our way or the highway". And how can they be the "fiscally responsible" party and yet be the cause of the national debt, borrowing from social security, and overspending and waste every Republican presidency?
And it's crazy. Remember when people claimed vaccines, which save people's lives, were being called an attack on the American people by the Democrats? But then Republican enabled no-names pulled of the street to go around shooting citizens and others, and that's apparently fine.
Our entire "free" civilization is a Trump (or the next guy) whim from an AI-processed ubiquitously monitored complete authoritarian lockdown.
Legislative, Executive, Judicial, doesn't matter: everything since 9/11, and likely much longer before in unofficial capacities, has been the steady groundwork for complete overturn of civil and constitutional rights indefinitely ... and therefore permanently.
Gulf of Tonkin / Reichstag Fire as justification. Secret courts, enemy combatants, warrantless monitoring, disappearing of people, dismantling of institutional memory. Databases, social networks, graph inference of behavior, secret lists. Massive prison infrastructure with no regard for cruel and unusual punishment.
This is the imminent great filter: not some nuclear armageddon. It's staring at us in China -- the human race placed under boot, and everyone stops having kids. A couple generations, and a civilization essentially disappears.
> This is the imminent great filter: not some nuclear armageddon.
Don't entirely rule out "nuclear armageddon" just yet. The levels of mass-stupidity on display in the "halls of power" these days don't really preclude any possible civilization-ending outcome. We just gotta wait and see where this is all goin' in the end. I'm personally leaning toward "Terminator" (minus the time-travel hooey and/or the actually intelligent killing machines).
I wonder if Palantir keeps a database of ICE activity.
If so, I wonder how much it will cost for the next democratic DOJ to purchase it, or if the courts will simply compel Palantir to hand it over.
FYI Palantir doesn't store anything themselves. These are on-prem or private cloud deployments on top of actual data stores.
Also public cloud:
https://www.palantir.com/partnerships/cloud/
I wonder if Palantir manages some deployments for customers. I’d guess they do.
They'll shred the evidence and burn the camps down once it's clear the ship is sinking, like the previous guys did.
Dissolve ICE. Anyone who works at the agency should be barred from future public service of any kind.
Dissolve Palantir too while at it. Nationalize it and hand it over to the NSA, since it's like a festering pus that won't go away.
If the US ever makes it out of this phase, it'll need to go through a process similar to denazification.
As part of that, ICE members would have to explain themselves and, as you said, be excluded from public service, or honestly, any position of power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification
> If the US ever makes it out of this phase, it'll need to go through a process similar to denazification.
You want to hire ICE members in your rocket program and in CIA, are you insane?
Denazification ended up with many former Nazis in public service and government. The allies realized they simply can’t find enough Germans who were not former Nazis to run the country.
I agree, and that's one of the major factors that prompted the student movements of '68 [0], which was a big cultural readjustment away from that sort of thing. History takes time. Culture doesn't shift overnight. But one has to set the right impulses where possible.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_German_student_movement
> Dissolve ICE.
This is the patriotic thing to do.
This feels very similar to the “abolish the police” rhetoric we heard during the George Floyd stuff.
I’m genuinely curious about what your opinion actually means here. If we abolish ICE are you saying that we should never deport anyone? If someone manages to sneak across the border they have a right to live here forever?
I'm saying we dismantle the sprawling security state that was built in the early aughts and replace it with something fair and humane. I'm not arguing to stop deportations. I'd prefer a far more humane, carefully considered set of policies — we don't need masked thugs in the streets killing civilians, we don't need camps and detention centers operated by private companies profiting off of human suffering.
That doesn't look like an absolute stop to deportations, it does look like a stop to the madness and cruelty of the current administration and its supporters.
Deportations occurred before ICE and deportations can occur after ICE is dissolved. I'm genuinely curious at your questions. Do you believe people could just sneak across the border and live in United States forever before ICE existed, and that it somehow stopped with the formation of ICE?
I’m genuinely curious whether you've heard of the concept of a false dichotomy.
Australia has no ICE and yet somehow manages to deport people.
Perhaps it's less about the deportations of those that are genuinely evading the system and more about the deportations of those who have engaged with the pipeline, pay taxes, and still get shot by the masked thugs of Gregory Bovino who's too busy larping as a Nazi in a trenchcoat to pay heed to regular US laws.
>Australia has no ICE and yet somehow manages to deport people.
False. Australia has a law enforcement agency that is responsible for immigration and customs enforcement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Border_Force
>Perhaps it's less about the deportations of those that are genuinely evading the system
Hudreds of thousands of illegal immigrants have been deported and border crossings are near an all time low. The rest of your post is "everyone I don't like is a Nazi."
Pretty telling how you somehow seem to conflate deporting people who have no documentation, and committing human right abuses, sending people to their death, murdering US citizens, recruiting racists and alt-right extremists, and anyone. Improperly training agents, racial profiling. Abolishing an organization that engages in those things is a "rhetoric" to you. You clearly don't have any problem with any those things, the only thing you care about, is well, deporting those "illegals".
I think it’s a generous compromise personally.
Please remind me what year ICE was established?
United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was established in 2003.
Why does the year matter?
When congress flips there are going to be investigations, subpoenas, warrants, arrests, and convictions of thousands of people who did things under trump that they should not have done. Accountability is coming.
Love the optimism. Ain’t never gunna happen. The corruption reaches too deep on both sides of the aisle. Mark my words.
Theres no guarantees. When is a dangerous word. :)
I don't expect that to happen. I suspect even the democrat politicians are internally happy that Trump has pushed boundaries of everything and has given a precedent. The new admin if it comes, would cherry pick all the delicious parts and put on backburner more controversial ones until it is ready to bring it out again.
Once power is corrupted, it is very hard to bring it back to more innocent times. The power of presidents have only increased under both parties.
Uh huh, just like after the 2018 election and the 2020 election and all we got was Nancy kneeling in Kente cloth.
> A spokesperson for DHS calls the case “meritless” and says that “the underlying lawsuit is based on the lie that there is a database of ‘domestic terrorists’ run by DHS.”
Wait, wouldn't you want/ expect DHS to maintain a database of domestic terrorists? That wasn't even the question!
> wouldn't you want/ expect DHS to maintain a database of domestic terrorists?
The problem is that they pretty-much classify anyone at a protest as a "domestic terrorist" these days, and I've personally met people who actually agree with that insane definition. We live in a mad mad world these days, and I don't really expect it to get better at this point.
> According to the legal filing, that afternoon, J.C. [an ICE agent] called [the spouse of an individual who had lawfully recorded an ICE detainment] on her cell phone, identifying himself only as "the Department of Homeland Security." According to [the call recipient], he told her she "should encourage" her spouse, [the observer], "not to do anything like that in the future because people who are doing things like that might get added to a domestic terrorism watchlist." J.C. testified in a deposition that he warned [the observer’s spouse] she would be arrested if she “continue[d] to do this.”
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone following US news, but we should be angry about it. Textbook intimidation.
> Government attorneys asserted in a court filing that [agent J.C.] denied referencing a “domestic terrorism watchlist.”
And then they lied about it!
Sooooo, harassing citizens for exercising our right to public free speech.
It’ll be nice when we go the other direction of qualified immunity where you need to actually be doing an enumerate act to qualify for immunity.
Hey guys, if you have a dashcam that can record at any time, start hitting that button when you think there might even be an inkling of an unmarked vehicle by you. Back up that footage and save it.
small-government republicans at it again
Small government to Republicans has _always_ meant "government our way or the highway". And how can they be the "fiscally responsible" party and yet be the cause of the national debt, borrowing from social security, and overspending and waste every Republican presidency?
And it's crazy. Remember when people claimed vaccines, which save people's lives, were being called an attack on the American people by the Democrats? But then Republican enabled no-names pulled of the street to go around shooting citizens and others, and that's apparently fine.
Small government. Big contractors.
Our entire "free" civilization is a Trump (or the next guy) whim from an AI-processed ubiquitously monitored complete authoritarian lockdown.
Legislative, Executive, Judicial, doesn't matter: everything since 9/11, and likely much longer before in unofficial capacities, has been the steady groundwork for complete overturn of civil and constitutional rights indefinitely ... and therefore permanently.
Gulf of Tonkin / Reichstag Fire as justification. Secret courts, enemy combatants, warrantless monitoring, disappearing of people, dismantling of institutional memory. Databases, social networks, graph inference of behavior, secret lists. Massive prison infrastructure with no regard for cruel and unusual punishment.
This is the imminent great filter: not some nuclear armageddon. It's staring at us in China -- the human race placed under boot, and everyone stops having kids. A couple generations, and a civilization essentially disappears.
> This is the imminent great filter: not some nuclear armageddon.
Don't entirely rule out "nuclear armageddon" just yet. The levels of mass-stupidity on display in the "halls of power" these days don't really preclude any possible civilization-ending outcome. We just gotta wait and see where this is all goin' in the end. I'm personally leaning toward "Terminator" (minus the time-travel hooey and/or the actually intelligent killing machines).