I don't think it's JUST Teslas, any car with its own cellular link is a total non starter for me after that Jeep article 10ish years ago. Give me a key fob, carplay for my music and maps, and that's all the smarts I need. Keep the heated seats.
Our customers have spoken and we are listening. The 12V power outlet in your car now requires a $9.99/month unlimited use fee or an affordable per-watt charge you can pay with a CarBucks card found in all major retailers!
In the longstanding tradition of leading on the forefront safety, we introduce Engine Check coming up after mysterious, unaccounted for, unsigned voltage drops.
Can't be too safe if it could be a short, right?
"Tinkerer mode" only £14.75 per month*
*additional checks during the annual service apply.
Three days later, Pucci, now 50, followed her in a car and started to yell at her about a man she was dating.
“You thought you’d get away with this. I am in your car. I am in your maps,” he shouted at her, according to the police records.
[...]
“The victim has not been able to drive certain speeds and on most recent occasions throughout this period, [the accused] has turned on ‘Valet Mode’ which immediately reduces the speed to 40km per hour causing significant safety issues for the victim on the road”, the police documents stated.
Of course this incident shows why I wouldn't want a car with this capability. Because when an asshole like Pucci can do it, the operator of the remote services can do it too!
That's the worst villain monologue I've ever heard, but unintentionally funny. Somehow appropriate for someone sharing his name with a JoJo's Bizarre Adventure villain.
This reminds me of the "I am in your walls" meme, just so much more creepy.
I really hate vehicles. But I especially hate those that aren't able to be change to an entirely local mode, with no non-GPS radio further than like 10 meters. But then again, that wouldn't make line go up since we can't charge for/control basic features, so it is becoming more and more a rarity.
As soon as I saw the title I was like "There's gonna be a long history of abuse before this that has yet to see any consequences." Then I open the article and there's a whole section called "History of Abuse".
Remotely controlling or even accessing location info from a car should show a little popup on the infotainment system, if not live, at least when you park or next start the car.
This is already a feature in the software and has been for years. Anytime the car is accessed remotely a phone icon is shown on screen and you can click it to see what is accessing.
It sounds like this woman just wasn't aware of the control he had over the car until the parental control message popped up sometime in the 12 day span. Since the article doesn't mention anything after those dates, she was likely able to gain back control.
I certainly understand why people don't want connected cars but I can also understand the convenience factor. Yes, this amount of control over a car could potentially be used to put someone in danger (40kph on the highway isn't safe). But other than ensuring reasonable safeguards against speed controls on a highway, how would Tesla or any other manufacturer ensure convenient access to these remote features for the legitimate owner of the car? I guess one way would be to verify account information against an email or phone number that were used at purchase, only allow transfer of the remote control access by written authorization, and enable 2FA so only someone with access to the owner's email or phone can log in. I guess this still doesn't limit an abusive partner that simply just takes the victims phone or forces them to sign up using the abuser's information. And even so, is it Tesla's duty to ensure abusive partners don't abuse remote control? At best, they have a duty to ensure remote control cannot put the driver into a dangerous situation. Maybe they could have a local-only override code that allows an authenticated driver to temporarily cancel any remote control. Maybe all a remote user could do is reset the code but not be able to set a new one.
I'm both surprised and not that this is not present. It took iOS how many versions before showing the icon when some app somewhere is using the location? These are the kinds of things that the system designers are so focused on getting it to work that thinking of protecting the users from abuse is just not part of the roadmap. It makes sense, except in today's times. There have been so many examples of systems being abused and examples of the solutions put in place that we don't have to start from a blank sheet of paper. Designers should look around at what is normal and start from there. Designing v1 with less features than everything around it is just lazy
A small icon that blends into the background of the UI and easily missed when driving, is not the same as a pop-up/audio cue informing the driver their location is currently/recently being accessed remotely.
I'd assume there would be a popup that says in clear terms "Device XYZ was used to view your location" or whatever, and a button you could click that let you see all linked devices and kick them from your account.
IMO cars shouldn't have parental controls. If you had your kid the keys, you're giving them control. It's one of the first seriously adult things kids are trusted to do, and that trust should not be partial.
Whoever holds the keys owns the car. If it's stolen, that can go through a court. Otherwise, remote control should be subservient to whoever is actually in the driver's seat.
It’d take the form of a disclaimer that you eventually tune out because it appears every single time you start the car because Nissan wants to sell data about you.
Ford takes that approach. Every time you hop in one with the location/telemetry services on it gives you a big distracting "Location and connected vehicle/usage data collection active" message.
i wonder what the venn diagram of "downvoters terminally incapable of placing themselves in a dangerous hypothetical in which they are not in control of a life-threatening situation" AND "people on hn who work on these products" looks like.
I would not buy a Tesla because the owner of the company does Nazi salutes but I feel like this is more or less like someone forgetting their ex is on their Spotify family account.
> but I feel like this is more or less like someone forgetting their ex is on their Spotify family account
Yeah, if victims can't keep a cool head and properly do all their admin just because they are in a very stressful, perhaps even dangerous, situation, they should just accept the responsibility for being so lax instead of expecting any sort of empathy.
[just in case this is needed, because distressingly it sometimes is: that sound you may hear isn't tinnitus, it is sarcasm detectors going off]
Trivializing the problem and victim-blaming? You’re off to a great start, maybe finish up with how the victim should be prosecuted for leaving the account unsecured?
how is anyone else at fault here? If someone is ignorant of the capabilities and controls afforded to them for expensive, high ticket, important items such as vehicles ... they don't really have anyone else to blame except them, and perhaps oversight from the designer or vendor of the product.
I don't think it's JUST Teslas, any car with its own cellular link is a total non starter for me after that Jeep article 10ish years ago. Give me a key fob, carplay for my music and maps, and that's all the smarts I need. Keep the heated seats.
Sorry heated seats now behind $13.99/mo paywall.
That's why I'll drive my Slate down to AutoZone and grab the 12v heated seat massager pad and strap it to the drivers' seat.
Take that, paywalled subscriptions.
Our customers have spoken and we are listening. The 12V power outlet in your car now requires a $9.99/month unlimited use fee or an affordable per-watt charge you can pay with a CarBucks card found in all major retailers!
Time to directly wire it to the car battery then
In the longstanding tradition of leading on the forefront safety, we introduce Engine Check coming up after mysterious, unaccounted for, unsigned voltage drops.
Can't be too safe if it could be a short, right?
"Tinkerer mode" only £14.75 per month*
*additional checks during the annual service apply.
Choice quote from the article:
Of course this incident shows why I wouldn't want a car with this capability. Because when an asshole like Pucci can do it, the operator of the remote services can do it too!> I am in your car. I am in your maps.
That's the worst villain monologue I've ever heard, but unintentionally funny. Somehow appropriate for someone sharing his name with a JoJo's Bizarre Adventure villain.
> I am in your car. I am in your maps,
This reminds me of the "I am in your walls" meme, just so much more creepy.
I really hate vehicles. But I especially hate those that aren't able to be change to an entirely local mode, with no non-GPS radio further than like 10 meters. But then again, that wouldn't make line go up since we can't charge for/control basic features, so it is becoming more and more a rarity.
[0]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-am-living-in-your-walls
As soon as I saw the title I was like "There's gonna be a long history of abuse before this that has yet to see any consequences." Then I open the article and there's a whole section called "History of Abuse".
Imagine if he had her password to Hacker News!
Remotely controlling or even accessing location info from a car should show a little popup on the infotainment system, if not live, at least when you park or next start the car.
This is already a feature in the software and has been for years. Anytime the car is accessed remotely a phone icon is shown on screen and you can click it to see what is accessing.
It sounds like this woman just wasn't aware of the control he had over the car until the parental control message popped up sometime in the 12 day span. Since the article doesn't mention anything after those dates, she was likely able to gain back control.
I certainly understand why people don't want connected cars but I can also understand the convenience factor. Yes, this amount of control over a car could potentially be used to put someone in danger (40kph on the highway isn't safe). But other than ensuring reasonable safeguards against speed controls on a highway, how would Tesla or any other manufacturer ensure convenient access to these remote features for the legitimate owner of the car? I guess one way would be to verify account information against an email or phone number that were used at purchase, only allow transfer of the remote control access by written authorization, and enable 2FA so only someone with access to the owner's email or phone can log in. I guess this still doesn't limit an abusive partner that simply just takes the victims phone or forces them to sign up using the abuser's information. And even so, is it Tesla's duty to ensure abusive partners don't abuse remote control? At best, they have a duty to ensure remote control cannot put the driver into a dangerous situation. Maybe they could have a local-only override code that allows an authenticated driver to temporarily cancel any remote control. Maybe all a remote user could do is reset the code but not be able to set a new one.
I'm both surprised and not that this is not present. It took iOS how many versions before showing the icon when some app somewhere is using the location? These are the kinds of things that the system designers are so focused on getting it to work that thinking of protecting the users from abuse is just not part of the roadmap. It makes sense, except in today's times. There have been so many examples of systems being abused and examples of the solutions put in place that we don't have to start from a blank sheet of paper. Designers should look around at what is normal and start from there. Designing v1 with less features than everything around it is just lazy
Lay down the pitchfork, this _is_ on the dashboard - and has been since sometime in 2023: https://tesla-info.com/release/2023.38#Location%20Sharing
A small icon that blends into the background of the UI and easily missed when driving, is not the same as a pop-up/audio cue informing the driver their location is currently/recently being accessed remotely.
Okay. It’s now visible. Now what? You still can’t do anything about it.
I'd assume there would be a popup that says in clear terms "Device XYZ was used to view your location" or whatever, and a button you could click that let you see all linked devices and kick them from your account.
IMO cars shouldn't have parental controls. If you had your kid the keys, you're giving them control. It's one of the first seriously adult things kids are trusted to do, and that trust should not be partial.
Whoever holds the keys owns the car. If it's stolen, that can go through a court. Otherwise, remote control should be subservient to whoever is actually in the driver's seat.
You go to the settings in the car screen and remove that device from the list of authorized devices.
It’d take the form of a disclaimer that you eventually tune out because it appears every single time you start the car because Nissan wants to sell data about you.
Ford takes that approach. Every time you hop in one with the location/telemetry services on it gives you a big distracting "Location and connected vehicle/usage data collection active" message.
But how did he get admin access?
Article says she granted it when she needed help, and presumably before she realized he could weaponize it against her.
Ah missed that. Thanks.
So the danger started when she let him register as the car owner.
the danger started when he took control of the car.
Answered in the article. He used the excuse of helping her navigate the technology to get in a position of control.
"I got this car before my ex went crazy"
[dead]
Terrifying. I never want want a car with this risk.
i wonder what the venn diagram of "downvoters terminally incapable of placing themselves in a dangerous hypothetical in which they are not in control of a life-threatening situation" AND "people on hn who work on these products" looks like.
hopefully it's small. realistically... i'm scared.
I would not buy a Tesla because the owner of the company does Nazi salutes but I feel like this is more or less like someone forgetting their ex is on their Spotify family account.
> but I feel like this is more or less like someone forgetting their ex is on their Spotify family account
Yeah, if victims can't keep a cool head and properly do all their admin just because they are in a very stressful, perhaps even dangerous, situation, they should just accept the responsibility for being so lax instead of expecting any sort of empathy.
[just in case this is needed, because distressingly it sometimes is: that sound you may hear isn't tinnitus, it is sarcasm detectors going off]
Trivializing the problem and victim-blaming? You’re off to a great start, maybe finish up with how the victim should be prosecuted for leaving the account unsecured?
how is anyone else at fault here? If someone is ignorant of the capabilities and controls afforded to them for expensive, high ticket, important items such as vehicles ... they don't really have anyone else to blame except them, and perhaps oversight from the designer or vendor of the product.