Spotify is in the process of killing the librespot project that this and most third party Spotify players are built on. I think the golden age of music streaming is coming to an end. I’ve migrated to a self hosted library with streaming and radio for discovery. I hope we’ll see many projects in the space flourish. Many, like Navidrome and the whole OpenSubsonic ecosystem, seem to be doing quite well.
What makes you think Spotify is killing it? I know they aren't supporting FLAC but otherwise I don't think they're actively trying to stop it as opposed to not really caring if they support it (which is more "We don't care" as opposed to "We have to stop this")
Librespot no longer works for new accounts. APIs are being gated off and they’re applying legal pressure to dissuade projects from reverse engineering anything new. At the end of the day, they can turn the tap off anytime they want, whether by technical or legal means. I tired of having so much of my music experience at risk and chose to migrate on my own terms.
They can only turn the tap off because those projects operated in ways that required them to leave it on.
Biggest mistake most librefication projects make is to do their project out in the open where they can easily be subject to legal pressure, then fall into complete disarray the moment that pressure appears. They can't move underground once pressure starts, because everyone already knows who they are.
> Biggest mistake most librefication projects make is to do their project out in the open
That's not it. Most youtube downloaders are not developed in the open and Youtube still breaks them every other week by changing on purpose the way they operate. And, unlike highly obfuscated instructions, studying the network queries used by a simple app does not require expensive reverse engineering efforts from Spotify engineers; essentially, it's the same as developing in the open.
The only case i can think where obfuscation might help would be if the actual Spotify API consumers were servers by the app developers (or some form of obfuscation via residential proxies) and the app developed an entirely different API to/from its servers. But then, you're back to the developers and hosts can receive legal threats, etc...
You propose the open-source community operates behind closed doors like the very software they aim to replace?
I’d argue Spotify has so little to gain by being hostile, that perhaps the lawyers are more expensive than just ignoring these pet projects (which would never gain mass adoption).
If anyone other than me really likes classical music, I thoroughly recommend Hyperion Records. DRM free downloads in your choice of codec, one to two free CDs worth of sampler per month to download (with a jewel case PDF!) and some truly excellent world leading groups and beautiful new music.
Thanks for sharing. I loved buying then downloading cheap samplers from punk and hardcore labels when I was younger. That was part of the culture and that really helped me discover new music and shaping my tastes. This is something that doesn't exist that much anymore and I'm glad to find this initiative. I try to listen to classical music but that's a very difficult world to discover, this will probably help by helping me to focus on few titles instead of jumping in the gigantic and maze-ish pool !
Would you be willing to share a bit more about this setup? The only thing keeping my on streaming is the fact that its almost impossible to find new music otherwise. I know LastFM exists but it just doesn't click for me the way that streaming does. I like discovering music organically.
I left spotify around two years ago for a self hosted option (I mostly use navidrome+feishin). Music discovery was a concern for me as well, but then I realized that I didn't like the idea of spotify curating which music I discovered. So far, this is what has worked for me:
- Actually listening to the music I have now. I think the art of listening through full albums has slowly died, but there is so much music we're ignoring because we just listen to Artist's top tracks.
- Word of mouth. Asking my friends what they listen to. This is a way that people used to discover music and I've found so much good music this way.
- Bandcamp. Bandcamp is SUCH a good way to discover new music. You can listen to the music in app, there are great articles and you can actually support the artists!
I have pretty much the same setup. The only thing that bothers me with navidrome+feishin is that gapless playback is not working perfectly.
Also, a great resource for discovering new music is the public library. They often have a curated CD section that I then rip into FLAC. I've had great chats with the people in my town's library, and I often pick a totally random CD off the shelves and discover some amazing artists.
I listen to Flow State, SomaFM, and aggregate from local shows and a few people I follow on social media among other discovery platforms. (I don’t have a favorite yet.)
I found that Spotify was increasingly recommending AI artists and songs I already knew. It surfaced very little outside of my comfort zone and effectively nothing that wasn’t new. There’s a whole world of music out there that Spotify wasn’t showing me.
I used to use hypem soo much during the music blog days and had a subscription etc but it seemed to stop working or something so after a while I stopped using it. I will have to check it out again
using nts.live and and fip radio -> https://www.radiofrance.fr/fip at the moment for same purpose. Radio France allows to save liked track names in profile to look up later.
was a big question mark I had as well. The Clear Channel and iHeart stations are not known for discovery. Now if you find a college station or by some miracle an independent station you can get some new stuff. My favorite local college station is also ad free. They also have an app which I lean on as it's not the strongest transmitter so their coverage is spotty. Maybe there's other indy stations with apps as well??
This radio station is local to the city I live in, and they've been great for music discovery for me, although heavy focus on local artists, but they've put me onto a few international artists as well.
I subscribe to them, have done so for ~10 years I reckon. I don't listen as much as I used to, but I want them to continue existing either way.
Be aware, the quality of their playlists is incredibly variable, but that's part of the charm. I guarantee you'll hear something you haven't heard before... for better or worse.
I would always recommend KEXP. They have a really varied set of shows and setlists, don't seem to be swayed by "we must play the top 40", genuinely care about music, and are super nice if you head into the building in Seattle (which has a public access space, coffee shop, bathrooms, and a SubPop store).
I've had three tours around the place just by telling the folks there that Im there from out of town. To be fair, I might have gotten the tours because I came all the way over from England the times, but it's my favourite place to hang out when I'm in Seattle.
Also Ken is the nicest guy ever, and he introduced me to Larry Mizzel Jr while he was broadcasting live.
Get the app, or use the player on their website, and hive then a try for an hour or do. The app has the ability to "heart" a track while it's playing live, which helps with discovery.
Call me a boomer but I’ve had a ton of fun with XM radio. I can find new music on Bandcamp but nothing compares to hearing some classic from the 80’s that you would have never thought to put on when you’re driving home after work on a Friday.
I don't know about you but spotify discovery feels like the least organic discovery possible. Its so homogeneous and predictable and corporate slop adjacent it makes me cringe just thinking about it.
I've discovered so many great artists through Spotify, and been to many of their shows (which Spotify also helps surface with their "Live Events" feature). I regularly get artists with less than 100k listeners in my Discover Weekly, which I then look up, and find that they did a concert on KEXP, and the comments all proclaiming "I knew good music wasn't dead!".
So I can say for sure that I don't share the slop sentiment. Sure, there's some generic filler every now and then, but any non-cohesive mix, as opposed to a carefully curated album is going to have songs that naturally become "fillers".
Just now, I discovered that Spotify snuck in "The Juan Maclean - Running Back To You (2014)", which is a cover of "Brian Bennet - Solstice (1978)". Neither songs are completely unknown, but they're also not exactly Bruno Mars.
I don't know if this is pure luck or algorithmic rhythm analysis, but for me it's working.
I've also canceled my Spotify sub three weeks ago and migrated to Navidrome. I'm still not quite satisfied with the available clients, I'm using Feishin. Fastpotift looks like a nice candidate to extend to support Navidrome.
I'm glad they're doing well but I would guess only a tiny fraction of the people who use Spotify would be capable of setting up Navidrome. I tried and went back to Plex. I wish it were otherwise but if something takes more than a few clicks to go from zero to music that leaves 95% of users out! I hope these projects get more accessible though.
Because millions of Spotify-compatible speakers are sold with firmware that will never be upgraded, so they can't ever change the Spotify connect protocol without breaking those devices.
Tools for piracy are much better today than they were back in the Napster or grooveshark days. It’s actually kind of shocking to me that we haven’t had a popcorntime moment for music again. Nothing technical is preventing the creation of a perfect decentralized anonymous p2p FLAC streaming platform with plausible deniability.
How would the plausible deniability piece work? If you stream some bytes to someone else, you can't deny doing it. Unless you imagine this working over Tor, idk what the performance of Tor is these days but I never thought it could support such an application.
Music is relatively small. Tor is totally capable of hosting zlibrary without bandwidth restrictions getting in the way.
By plausible deniability I simply meant adopting a similar approach that Stremio has, to keep it on the good side of App Store approval processes. The app itself only allows for creative commons content by default, but with the right incantations it can host anything.
Stremio and other apps like Fusion have gone up and been (reasonably quickly) taken down off the App Store though.
Not really "on the good side" when your main distribution method is "add this app to your account within the first 1-2 weeks of it being in the App Store or never again", or sideloading.
The first Spotify client, the one in Qt was actually really good. Things started going downhill slowly when they integrated Facebook then very fast when they threw everything through the window to rewrite everything in electron.
Probably for the same reason Twitter killed their API, more control over the experience and to serve ads/cross-promote. More cross-promote for Spotify.
> We're going to vibe code the entire enshittified internet to be ours once again.
It’s such a wishful thinking, but no it doesn’t and won’t work this way. Code != useful product. Plus today’s web is all about fabricated content, AI bots, cloudflare challenge walls and all other annoying stuff. The very idea of being able to create something in seconds is already killing internet.
Garbage being created at unprecedented rates does not diminish the fact that LLMs are acting as a positive multiplier for useful tools; this very item being one.
No one in all these years had gone through the effort of replicating the Spotify client with a snappy fast interface for a reason. Everything had been an integration into already existing software, or simpler interfaces, because the effort was not worth it. The equation has changed.
You can look at the glass half full all you want, my glass is overflowing.
This is the best year in all of my 20 years in tech. I'm creating so much stuff and it's all I've ever wanted.
This is the dream of the 2000's, and big tech can't stop us anymore.
I think I'm going to write my own music player soon that behaves exactly like I want it to. Maybe this weekend. Or maybe right after my home automation project. But I can probably squeeze them both in.
> You are creating so much stuff, but most of them are useless garbage that no one cares about.
Are you so sure of that?
One of my projects is at $5M ARR in just six months. I passed $400k in sales this month. It's an open source project.
I'm teaching my wife to code and we're going to make a video game together. Surely you can see the value in that bonding experience? She never would have been interested prior to Claude Code.
I've been writing my own SRS software for drilling typing in Japanese. It's pretty fantastic. Nothing like that existed before I made it. So many needs that went unmet are just being filled.
That's just top of mind. I've been doing a ton.
Nobody likes to tag music the way I like to (multiple scalar quantified dimensions with clustering), so there's literally no music player on the planet in the shape that I want. If I'd wanted to build that before, I'd have to spend opportunity cost over several weekends to start building, plus the ongoing burden of maintenance. That's likely a few months burnt plus fixing things when API integrations break down. Now it's a few hours plus a bug fix here and there.
This is 3D printing for software.
I don't get the negativity. This is all so magical.
FYI on this site, I had to enable WebGL to get it to run in Firefox. Not sure why it requires WebGL specifically I didn't see anything on the pages that seemed to need something like that. They could be losing customers that can't load their site.
If anyone is interested in selfhosting or wants to stop using spotify without losing the discoverabily:
I use explo+slsk+lidarr+navidrome, for access on my phone I use dsub2000 or symfonium but mainly dsub2000.
Explo is the software used for the discovery https://github.com/LumePart/Explo
It automatically downloads daily jams, weekly jams and weekly exploration playlists from your listenbrainz account(free) using youtube, soulseek(with slskd) or lidarr (support was merged very recently).
I also imported all my artists from my spotify account when I migrated which you can do in lidarr with the plugin ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶ bellow ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶l̶i̶d̶a̶r̶r̶.̶
Software has finally started to get faster, and I love it.
Pls don't consider this a spam, but if anyone is interested in a fast native Slack client, I'm building one, since Slack themselves don't want to: https://msga.app
Edit: egui is an immediate mode GUI library written in Rust. egui runs natively on , and on the web it is compiled to WebAssembly and rendered with WebGL or WebGPU. Everything you see is rendered as textured triangles. There is no DOM, HTML, JS or CSS. Just Rust.
I was about to come here and say that egui is a terrible choice for web. Everything is rendered in a canvas, so accessibility and extensibility is thrown out of the window. Basic browser functions like pinch-zoom don't work, it has some very wonky visual bugs when resizing the window, interactions have a very noticeable delay, no browser extensions work with this.
This is really not a good solution for web apps, and if you're vibe coding your apps anyway, there isn't any reason not to have a native browser application.
Tried using Spotify web client on Safari the other day. Performance was absolutely terrible.
For comparison I was using Apple Music via safari before.
I’m just surprised that such a big company can produce such an awful web experience, guess everyone is just using the native app, but for some that’s not possible
It’s not specific to this program, but I lately get this feeling that distributing widely a piece of software that exists for 5 days and saw a dozen releases in that period is stretching the open source trust model.
I've been thinking recently about buying an AI-capable GPU and using it to reverse-enginner and debloat apps I use every day. It seems like a task that even a dumber AI model could do. Disassemble the app, then either cut the things I don't care about, or just implement it fresh in a correct way.
I don't think models that run on single GPUs are capable of that yet sadly. You still need to spend ~$100k to get an actually good local LLM. Correct me if I'm wrong, local AI guys. It's really hard to get actually numbers on this stuff, but to run e.g. GLM 5.3 Flash as far as I can tell you need one of those super expensive 8 GPU machines.
If you're focused on lightweight, native and fast, I don't think you should use an immediate-mode GUI toolkit. Why does an app like this need to hit a 60fps framerate? It's not a game.
I was surprised to see an immediate mode gui toolkit.
They're great to integrate into a game loop because you control your loop, (and they're a delight to use) but I thought for perf retained mode was the way to go?
Am I missing something? Then again if the bar needing to be beaten is spotify's existing desktop app maybe it doesn't matter?
Egui doesn't do that. But it's written in Rust and only updates when you interact with it so in practice it's way more efficient than I would have expected.
This app is a dream come true for me. As a user I'm heavily invested in Spotify but I've grown more and more irritated with their client. Especially the recommendations, which thankfully are largely absent from your client.
Would love a setting to also remove the "Made for you" section, as well as the "Recommended for you" section, both on the home page.
I was using Spicetify to customize the official client to this effect, using CSS.
Fuck Spotify. Even if you don't care about the ethics of Daniel Ek's investments, the platform itself is crap. One of the lowest paying to artists, not paying at all unless they hit a threshold, and the catalogue is filling up with AI slop, which they push on users via 'radio' and 'mix' playlists, so they can pay even less royalties. No, thanks.
I've tested Deezer for half a year. The software quality was horrible.
Had a lot of crashes, it often took many many seconds to change between the songs and often getting stuck, the buffering algorithm was nuts and eating a lot of bandwidth.
Everything on a standard Pixel. Full 5G coverage was available.
Tidal is the last streaming service I use, split between that and a jellyfin+arrs setup coupled with buying music from artists directly.
Fuck Spotify and their rotten leadership. Was amongst the early adopters (2009). I'm sure they won't care for the loss, and I won't miss th when they're gone.
Qobuz have the highest per stream payout rate for artists [0], and have the best audio quality of all streaming platforms (better even that Tidal imho). They have desktop, mobile and android auto (and presumably carplay) clients, and an equivalent to Spotify Connect whereby streaming can be switched to a different client.
Downsides are no native client (same webview approach as Spotify), not as strong recommendations (though slowly improving), good but slightly quirkier UI (also slowly improving). For me the trade offs are worthwhile.
Tried Tidal? The one gripe I have with it is no remote control, as in using phone to change what's currently playing on the device connected to my sound system, without it thinking I want to start playing on my phone.
The best is to host your own, navidrome is great and easy to set up. But if you really wanna hate on one, it’s Apple Music, believe it or not, they will actually delete ALL your playlists that you made over the years if you stop paying subscription for few weeks or sometime for days, why? Because Apple says fuck you, you are renting and you are not entitled for anything, which also explains why they are now trying to have hardware as a service with their new renting hardware program.. at least spotify doesn’t do that and keep your playlist to export later.
I hacked the official client apart to hide some bullshit (like podcasts) and fix bugs that were pissing me off. Shared it exactly once and it stopped working within a month. Bugs were still there too
If it was a site made with AI it would be stuffed with way more ad copy, components, UI toggles, and small text. If this was made with AI, they seem to have restrained it from going on the gaudy UI mess of most AI generated sites that are what I like to think of as "Maximalist Minimalist". A hodgepodge of a design library.
The website looks great to me, clean and simple, perfect for a project like this. “Not looking like it was made by AI” isn’t something I value for itself in a website, any more than “not looking like it was made with injection molding” is something I would value in a plastic item.
Either it’s good or it isn’t, but it’s not good or bad because of how it was made.
Spotify is in the process of killing the librespot project that this and most third party Spotify players are built on. I think the golden age of music streaming is coming to an end. I’ve migrated to a self hosted library with streaming and radio for discovery. I hope we’ll see many projects in the space flourish. Many, like Navidrome and the whole OpenSubsonic ecosystem, seem to be doing quite well.
What makes you think Spotify is killing it? I know they aren't supporting FLAC but otherwise I don't think they're actively trying to stop it as opposed to not really caring if they support it (which is more "We don't care" as opposed to "We have to stop this")
Librespot no longer works for new accounts. APIs are being gated off and they’re applying legal pressure to dissuade projects from reverse engineering anything new. At the end of the day, they can turn the tap off anytime they want, whether by technical or legal means. I tired of having so much of my music experience at risk and chose to migrate on my own terms.
They can only turn the tap off because those projects operated in ways that required them to leave it on.
Biggest mistake most librefication projects make is to do their project out in the open where they can easily be subject to legal pressure, then fall into complete disarray the moment that pressure appears. They can't move underground once pressure starts, because everyone already knows who they are.
> Biggest mistake most librefication projects make is to do their project out in the open
That's not it. Most youtube downloaders are not developed in the open and Youtube still breaks them every other week by changing on purpose the way they operate. And, unlike highly obfuscated instructions, studying the network queries used by a simple app does not require expensive reverse engineering efforts from Spotify engineers; essentially, it's the same as developing in the open.
The only case i can think where obfuscation might help would be if the actual Spotify API consumers were servers by the app developers (or some form of obfuscation via residential proxies) and the app developed an entirely different API to/from its servers. But then, you're back to the developers and hosts can receive legal threats, etc...
Bit of an unfair take.
You propose the open-source community operates behind closed doors like the very software they aim to replace?
I’d argue Spotify has so little to gain by being hostile, that perhaps the lawyers are more expensive than just ignoring these pet projects (which would never gain mass adoption).
> the lawyers are more expensive than just ignoring these pet projects
The lawyers are more expensive than happy customers staying customers because they can enjoy the client they prefer, that's for sure.
If anyone other than me really likes classical music, I thoroughly recommend Hyperion Records. DRM free downloads in your choice of codec, one to two free CDs worth of sampler per month to download (with a jewel case PDF!) and some truly excellent world leading groups and beautiful new music.
Thanks for sharing. I loved buying then downloading cheap samplers from punk and hardcore labels when I was younger. That was part of the culture and that really helped me discover new music and shaping my tastes. This is something that doesn't exist that much anymore and I'm glad to find this initiative. I try to listen to classical music but that's a very difficult world to discover, this will probably help by helping me to focus on few titles instead of jumping in the gigantic and maze-ish pool !
> radio for discovery
Would you be willing to share a bit more about this setup? The only thing keeping my on streaming is the fact that its almost impossible to find new music otherwise. I know LastFM exists but it just doesn't click for me the way that streaming does. I like discovering music organically.
I left spotify around two years ago for a self hosted option (I mostly use navidrome+feishin). Music discovery was a concern for me as well, but then I realized that I didn't like the idea of spotify curating which music I discovered. So far, this is what has worked for me:
- Actually listening to the music I have now. I think the art of listening through full albums has slowly died, but there is so much music we're ignoring because we just listen to Artist's top tracks.
- Word of mouth. Asking my friends what they listen to. This is a way that people used to discover music and I've found so much good music this way.
- Bandcamp. Bandcamp is SUCH a good way to discover new music. You can listen to the music in app, there are great articles and you can actually support the artists!
I have pretty much the same setup. The only thing that bothers me with navidrome+feishin is that gapless playback is not working perfectly.
Also, a great resource for discovering new music is the public library. They often have a curated CD section that I then rip into FLAC. I've had great chats with the people in my town's library, and I often pick a totally random CD off the shelves and discover some amazing artists.
Epic bought bandcamp many moons ago. Did they enshittify it or is it still going strong?
Epic actually sold Bandcamp 3 years ago. I only started using it lately so I can't say how it was before, but I think it's still good.
https://pitchfork.com/news/epic-games-sells-bandcamp-amid-la...
Unfortunately bandcamp laid off virtually all of their engineers a month or so back: https://www.hypebot.com/new-bandcamp-layoffs-why-artists-are...
So, not enshittified, but either abandoned or headed for ensloppification.
I've been using it sporadically over the past 10+ years and have not noticed any major changes, at least for my limited use.
Thanks, I did some digging. My biggest issue is Andrew Jervis not running Bandcamp Weekly anymore. I loved that show :(
I use https://radioparadise.com for this, since more than 20 years.
I listen to Flow State, SomaFM, and aggregate from local shows and a few people I follow on social media among other discovery platforms. (I don’t have a favorite yet.)
I found that Spotify was increasingly recommending AI artists and songs I already knew. It surfaced very little outside of my comfort zone and effectively nothing that wasn’t new. There’s a whole world of music out there that Spotify wasn’t showing me.
Hype machine used to be so good for this. I haven't used it for a long time but it looks like it is still going in some fashion.
I used to use hypem soo much during the music blog days and had a subscription etc but it seemed to stop working or something so after a while I stopped using it. I will have to check it out again
using nts.live and and fip radio -> https://www.radiofrance.fr/fip at the moment for same purpose. Radio France allows to save liked track names in profile to look up later.
I just listen to NTS most of the time.
nts is all fire until a dj plays mp3 bitcrunched track that just hurts your ears
> radio for discovery
was a big question mark I had as well. The Clear Channel and iHeart stations are not known for discovery. Now if you find a college station or by some miracle an independent station you can get some new stuff. My favorite local college station is also ad free. They also have an app which I lean on as it's not the strongest transmitter so their coverage is spotty. Maybe there's other indy stations with apps as well??
This radio station is local to the city I live in, and they've been great for music discovery for me, although heavy focus on local artists, but they've put me onto a few international artists as well.
https://threedradio.com/
I subscribe to them, have done so for ~10 years I reckon. I don't listen as much as I used to, but I want them to continue existing either way.
Be aware, the quality of their playlists is incredibly variable, but that's part of the charm. I guarantee you'll hear something you haven't heard before... for better or worse.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zHR0HMFY60 (with 2 minutes of silence at the start to, presumably, avoid auto-copyright claims).
I believe there are! I consistently hear good things about KEXP and FIP but I haven’t listened to either extensively.
I listen to a lot of SomaFM (free, https://somafm.com/) and the Flow State radio-podcast (paid, https://www.flowstate.fm/).
I would always recommend KEXP. They have a really varied set of shows and setlists, don't seem to be swayed by "we must play the top 40", genuinely care about music, and are super nice if you head into the building in Seattle (which has a public access space, coffee shop, bathrooms, and a SubPop store).
I've had three tours around the place just by telling the folks there that Im there from out of town. To be fair, I might have gotten the tours because I came all the way over from England the times, but it's my favourite place to hang out when I'm in Seattle.
Also Ken is the nicest guy ever, and he introduced me to Larry Mizzel Jr while he was broadcasting live.
Get the app, or use the player on their website, and hive then a try for an hour or do. The app has the ability to "heart" a track while it's playing live, which helps with discovery.
Internet radio is still going strong: https://www.radio-browser.info/
Public radio is great, NPR and the member stations have some great streaming channels. KEXP and KCRW are two favs
Call me a boomer but I’ve had a ton of fun with XM radio. I can find new music on Bandcamp but nothing compares to hearing some classic from the 80’s that you would have never thought to put on when you’re driving home after work on a Friday.
I don't know about you but spotify discovery feels like the least organic discovery possible. Its so homogeneous and predictable and corporate slop adjacent it makes me cringe just thinking about it.
I've discovered so many great artists through Spotify, and been to many of their shows (which Spotify also helps surface with their "Live Events" feature). I regularly get artists with less than 100k listeners in my Discover Weekly, which I then look up, and find that they did a concert on KEXP, and the comments all proclaiming "I knew good music wasn't dead!".
So I can say for sure that I don't share the slop sentiment. Sure, there's some generic filler every now and then, but any non-cohesive mix, as opposed to a carefully curated album is going to have songs that naturally become "fillers".
Just now, I discovered that Spotify snuck in "The Juan Maclean - Running Back To You (2014)", which is a cover of "Brian Bennet - Solstice (1978)". Neither songs are completely unknown, but they're also not exactly Bruno Mars.
I don't know if this is pure luck or algorithmic rhythm analysis, but for me it's working.
I've also canceled my Spotify sub three weeks ago and migrated to Navidrome. I'm still not quite satisfied with the available clients, I'm using Feishin. Fastpotift looks like a nice candidate to extend to support Navidrome.
I'm glad they're doing well but I would guess only a tiny fraction of the people who use Spotify would be capable of setting up Navidrome. I tried and went back to Plex. I wish it were otherwise but if something takes more than a few clicks to go from zero to music that leaves 95% of users out! I hope these projects get more accessible though.
> Spotify is in the process of killing the librespot project
How could they possibly do that? They cannot prevent people or AI from reverse engineering their APIs.
Depends on how much they care. They can take down repos containing any keys, or use heuristics to block clients.
Technically no, but they can just ban you. It would not be impossible to detect.
Anthropic can prevent people from using their models with the subscription plan outside Claude Code, why couldn't Spotify?
Because millions of Spotify-compatible speakers are sold with firmware that will never be upgraded, so they can't ever change the Spotify connect protocol without breaking those devices.
... and no company ever broke backwards-compatible support.
Tools for piracy are much better today than they were back in the Napster or grooveshark days. It’s actually kind of shocking to me that we haven’t had a popcorntime moment for music again. Nothing technical is preventing the creation of a perfect decentralized anonymous p2p FLAC streaming platform with plausible deniability.
Have you heard of Soulseek? It's an active p2p music sharing platform.
How would the plausible deniability piece work? If you stream some bytes to someone else, you can't deny doing it. Unless you imagine this working over Tor, idk what the performance of Tor is these days but I never thought it could support such an application.
Music is relatively small. Tor is totally capable of hosting zlibrary without bandwidth restrictions getting in the way.
By plausible deniability I simply meant adopting a similar approach that Stremio has, to keep it on the good side of App Store approval processes. The app itself only allows for creative commons content by default, but with the right incantations it can host anything.
Stremio and other apps like Fusion have gone up and been (reasonably quickly) taken down off the App Store though.
Not really "on the good side" when your main distribution method is "add this app to your account within the first 1-2 weeks of it being in the App Store or never again", or sideloading.
> Spotify is in the process of killing the librespot project
Source?
Spoiler: Spotify has always been terrible. The golden age of music streaming was Zune pass where you could stream and download 10 songs/mo.
And arguably Pandora always had a better radio algorithm than Spotify.
The first Spotify client, the one in Qt was actually really good. Things started going downhill slowly when they integrated Facebook then very fast when they threw everything through the window to rewrite everything in electron.
> I think the golden age of music streaming is coming to an end
There was a world before Spotify. Though the music labels didn’t much like that world we can easily go back to it.
> There was a world before Spotify
There was, and it was definitely not "the golden age of music streaming".
Why are they killing librespot?
Probably for the same reason Twitter killed their API, more control over the experience and to serve ads/cross-promote. More cross-promote for Spotify.
>I think the golden age of music streaming is coming to an end.
Already ended for me. They killed the plan I was on, and then started sending me begging emails to sign up for a new, more expensive one.
But once I experienced their platform with ads, I just stopped using it entirely.
CIUT has some great shows and most are available online. University of Toronto.
> I think the golden age of music streaming is coming to an end.
It's just getting started.
We're going to vibe code the entire enshittified internet to be ours once again.
The dream of the 90's and 00's is alive again. The indie web is going to become unstoppable.
We can build anything of size and scale with the limited spare energy we have now. Every product will be reborn without big tech tendrils.
> We're going to vibe code the entire enshittified internet to be ours once again.
It’s such a wishful thinking, but no it doesn’t and won’t work this way. Code != useful product. Plus today’s web is all about fabricated content, AI bots, cloudflare challenge walls and all other annoying stuff. The very idea of being able to create something in seconds is already killing internet.
Garbage being created at unprecedented rates does not diminish the fact that LLMs are acting as a positive multiplier for useful tools; this very item being one.
No one in all these years had gone through the effort of replicating the Spotify client with a snappy fast interface for a reason. Everything had been an integration into already existing software, or simpler interfaces, because the effort was not worth it. The equation has changed.
who said anything about internet
You can look at the glass half full all you want, my glass is overflowing.
This is the best year in all of my 20 years in tech. I'm creating so much stuff and it's all I've ever wanted.
This is the dream of the 2000's, and big tech can't stop us anymore.
I think I'm going to write my own music player soon that behaves exactly like I want it to. Maybe this weekend. Or maybe right after my home automation project. But I can probably squeeze them both in.
It's like Christmas every day now.
Buddy, it’s the same big tech gave you this opportunity. You are creating so much stuff, but most of them are useless garbage that no one cares about.
> You are creating so much stuff, but most of them are useless garbage that no one cares about.
Are you so sure of that?
One of my projects is at $5M ARR in just six months. I passed $400k in sales this month. It's an open source project.
I'm teaching my wife to code and we're going to make a video game together. Surely you can see the value in that bonding experience? She never would have been interested prior to Claude Code.
I've been writing my own SRS software for drilling typing in Japanese. It's pretty fantastic. Nothing like that existed before I made it. So many needs that went unmet are just being filled.
That's just top of mind. I've been doing a ton.
Nobody likes to tag music the way I like to (multiple scalar quantified dimensions with clustering), so there's literally no music player on the planet in the shape that I want. If I'd wanted to build that before, I'd have to spend opportunity cost over several weekends to start building, plus the ongoing burden of maintenance. That's likely a few months burnt plus fixing things when API integrations break down. Now it's a few hours plus a bug fix here and there.
This is 3D printing for software.
I don't get the negativity. This is all so magical.
Well, happy for ya.
Links to your $5M ARR FOSS? And is that Annualized Run Rate or Annual Recurring Revenue? I'm guessing the former.
> One of my projects is at $5M ARR in just six months. I passed $400k in sales this month. It's an open source project.
If it's the former ARR, then how are you at $5M if it took you six months to get to $400k? $5M/12 = $416,666.6666666667
Which correct me if I'm misunderstanding (I do frequently) but that means your best average sales month was ~$400k, not 6 months to reach $400k.
Presumably https://getartcraft.com/, after some light stalking.
FYI on this site, I had to enable WebGL to get it to run in Firefox. Not sure why it requires WebGL specifically I didn't see anything on the pages that seemed to need something like that. They could be losing customers that can't load their site.
If anyone is interested in selfhosting or wants to stop using spotify without losing the discoverabily:
I use explo+slsk+lidarr+navidrome, for access on my phone I use dsub2000 or symfonium but mainly dsub2000.
Explo is the software used for the discovery https://github.com/LumePart/Explo It automatically downloads daily jams, weekly jams and weekly exploration playlists from your listenbrainz account(free) using youtube, soulseek(with slskd) or lidarr (support was merged very recently).
I also imported all my artists from my spotify account when I migrated which you can do in lidarr with the plugin ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶ bellow ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶l̶i̶d̶a̶r̶r̶.̶
plugin: https://github.com/TypNull/Tubifarry
̶f̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶d̶o̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ ̶i̶m̶a̶g̶e̶:̶ ̶g̶h̶c̶r̶.̶i̶o̶/̶l̶i̶n̶u̶x̶s̶e̶r̶v̶e̶r̶-̶l̶a̶b̶s̶/̶p̶r̶a̶r̶r̶:̶l̶i̶d̶a̶r̶r̶-̶p̶l̶u̶g̶i̶n̶s̶
This plugin is also needed for downloading songs with slsk in lidarr.
I'm using a similar setup with soularr, and I just need to import my playlists from Spotify, but I'd rather not use a fork of lidarr.
Hi, Actually it's not a fork it's the docker image for the plugin branch. Sorry I set this up quite a long while ago and didn't remember correctly.
And it seems to have been merged so the plugin branch is not needed anymore, see: https://github.com/Lidarr/Lidarr/pull/1829
So the official image would work.
Winamp feature is great but so random, and I love how it's listed as if it's a usual feature expected from any music player.
Hoping for a future in which people complain about missing basic functionality like winamp mode being missing in their music player of choice!
Let me start: I was going to recommend foobar2000 with the spotify plugin but the lack of a winamp mode must be a dealbreaker for many!
I get around the lack of such a mode by still using winamp!
That name is horrible.
Potify sounds like a toddler is learning to take a dump. And well, putting "fast" in front of it doesn't impress either in that case.
Software has finally started to get faster, and I love it. Pls don't consider this a spam, but if anyone is interested in a fast native Slack client, I'm building one, since Slack themselves don't want to: https://msga.app
Make MSTeams Great Again when? Amazing work btw.
Just tried your slack client, it has all the features I need and it is super smooth and lightweight, thanks!
I think the key call out with this is how cool egui is (the Rust GUI library it uses). Check out their website: https://www.egui.rs/
The demos are very good: https://www.egui.rs/#clock
Edit: egui is an immediate mode GUI library written in Rust. egui runs natively on , and on the web it is compiled to WebAssembly and rendered with WebGL or WebGPU. Everything you see is rendered as textured triangles. There is no DOM, HTML, JS or CSS. Just Rust.
I was about to come here and say that egui is a terrible choice for web. Everything is rendered in a canvas, so accessibility and extensibility is thrown out of the window. Basic browser functions like pinch-zoom don't work, it has some very wonky visual bugs when resizing the window, interactions have a very noticeable delay, no browser extensions work with this.
This is really not a good solution for web apps, and if you're vibe coding your apps anyway, there isn't any reason not to have a native browser application.
This feels like it would be an accessibility nightmare?
But maybe it could be cool for doing some advanced animations or rendering games or something.
The anti-aliasing is broken, it doesn't apply gamma correction
Did you look at it recently? Until a few months ago text was a blurry mess but it seems like they've mostly fixed it now.
> Everything you see is rendered as textured triangles. There is no DOM, HTML, JS or CSS. Just Rust.
So that's why text selection doesn't work.
Tried using Spotify web client on Safari the other day. Performance was absolutely terrible.
For comparison I was using Apple Music via safari before.
I’m just surprised that such a big company can produce such an awful web experience, guess everyone is just using the native app, but for some that’s not possible
Spotify used to use Qt for its desktop client. Good times.
It’s not specific to this program, but I lately get this feeling that distributing widely a piece of software that exists for 5 days and saw a dozen releases in that period is stretching the open source trust model.
I've been thinking recently about buying an AI-capable GPU and using it to reverse-enginner and debloat apps I use every day. It seems like a task that even a dumber AI model could do. Disassemble the app, then either cut the things I don't care about, or just implement it fresh in a correct way.
I don't think models that run on single GPUs are capable of that yet sadly. You still need to spend ~$100k to get an actually good local LLM. Correct me if I'm wrong, local AI guys. It's really hard to get actually numbers on this stuff, but to run e.g. GLM 5.3 Flash as far as I can tell you need one of those super expensive 8 GPU machines.
If you're focused on lightweight, native and fast, I don't think you should use an immediate-mode GUI toolkit. Why does an app like this need to hit a 60fps framerate? It's not a game.
I was surprised to see an immediate mode gui toolkit.
They're great to integrate into a game loop because you control your loop, (and they're a delight to use) but I thought for perf retained mode was the way to go?
Am I missing something? Then again if the bar needing to be beaten is spotify's existing desktop app maybe it doesn't matter?
Most immediate mode does a scene graph diff so it's not that bad
I have a custom IM GUIs based ide thing in C++ that uses like .2% of my 10yo CPU.
Egui doesn't do that. But it's written in Rust and only updates when you interact with it so in practice it's way more efficient than I would have expected.
if you want to discover new music, have a look at nts.live
https://fastpotify.rocks/winamp/ what a great feature!
It is a shame that Spotify have not made their Dear ImGui-based version available: https://github.com/ocornut/imgui/issues/3075#issuecomment-60...
Author here. Happy to answer any questions!
This app is a dream come true for me. As a user I'm heavily invested in Spotify but I've grown more and more irritated with their client. Especially the recommendations, which thankfully are largely absent from your client.
Would love a setting to also remove the "Made for you" section, as well as the "Recommended for you" section, both on the home page.
I was using Spicetify to customize the official client to this effect, using CSS.
Per another comment, is it true that you trick people wanting to view your code on GitHub, into starring your repo?
No. The "Star" button on the website is a simple link to the repo.
That seems like the kind of name that's gonna earn you a C&D.
Would be great if it could get included in Flathub, without it, I'd rather have an AppImage than a Flatpak file I think
When I saw the Winamp skin I had to hold to not cry
It supports WinAmp skins too… Dare I say it?
It really whips the llama's ass?
You had me at Winamp
Fuck Spotify. Even if you don't care about the ethics of Daniel Ek's investments, the platform itself is crap. One of the lowest paying to artists, not paying at all unless they hit a threshold, and the catalogue is filling up with AI slop, which they push on users via 'radio' and 'mix' playlists, so they can pay even less royalties. No, thanks.
I've tested Deezer for half a year. The software quality was horrible.
Had a lot of crashes, it often took many many seconds to change between the songs and often getting stuck, the buffering algorithm was nuts and eating a lot of bandwidth.
Everything on a standard Pixel. Full 5G coverage was available.
Alternatives?
Tidal is the last streaming service I use, split between that and a jellyfin+arrs setup coupled with buying music from artists directly.
Fuck Spotify and their rotten leadership. Was amongst the early adopters (2009). I'm sure they won't care for the loss, and I won't miss th when they're gone.
Seriously tried Tidal. Gave up on it because of the software quality.
Qobuz have the highest per stream payout rate for artists [0], and have the best audio quality of all streaming platforms (better even that Tidal imho). They have desktop, mobile and android auto (and presumably carplay) clients, and an equivalent to Spotify Connect whereby streaming can be switched to a different client.
Downsides are no native client (same webview approach as Spotify), not as strong recommendations (though slowly improving), good but slightly quirkier UI (also slowly improving). For me the trade offs are worthwhile.
[0] eg. https://resources.onestowatch.com/ethical-music-streaming-pl...
I've been happy with Qobuz as well. I use the third party open source QBZ client on Linux desktop.
Tried Tidal? The one gripe I have with it is no remote control, as in using phone to change what's currently playing on the device connected to my sound system, without it thinking I want to start playing on my phone.
Apple Music pays artists better, too.
I left when they forced podcasts into my music app and never looked back
The best is to host your own, navidrome is great and easy to set up. But if you really wanna hate on one, it’s Apple Music, believe it or not, they will actually delete ALL your playlists that you made over the years if you stop paying subscription for few weeks or sometime for days, why? Because Apple says fuck you, you are renting and you are not entitled for anything, which also explains why they are now trying to have hardware as a service with their new renting hardware program.. at least spotify doesn’t do that and keep your playlist to export later.
I hacked the official client apart to hide some bullshit (like podcasts) and fix bugs that were pissing me off. Shared it exactly once and it stopped working within a month. Bugs were still there too
I stopped sharing after that.
Have you seen Spicetify[0]? It allows for this kind of stuff and seems to be a lot more stable than doing it all manually.
[0] https://spicetify.app/
Another site tricking users willing to look at the code into starring the repo instead.
How desperate do you need to be to resort to this?
No. The "Star" button is a simple link to the repo.
I had to read the comment a few times. Do you mean "starring" instead of "starting"?
Yes sorry, fixed. Thanks!
Without looking at the codebase I am pretty sure it’s a vibe coded rust app, because this is what today’s most programmers understand about software.
the commits are very fine grained and the text is unusually not AI.
I mean you can beat AI to do anything nowadays, but this looks not that bad
I'd argue nobody writes such long commit messages this consistently. I'm VERY sure this is fully AI generated.
and?
That's boring, and unmaintainable.
until someone comes up with a non vibe coded one ill be happy having at least a fast option
It takes five minutes to make a website look less obviously AI-generated.
It takes five seconds to scroll to the bottom and see that it's a Jekyll theme before posting a negative comment
Surely they're referring to the llm-isms in the text?
A Jekyll theme from the same person as this project, yes.
If it was a site made with AI it would be stuffed with way more ad copy, components, UI toggles, and small text. If this was made with AI, they seem to have restrained it from going on the gaudy UI mess of most AI generated sites that are what I like to think of as "Maximalist Minimalist". A hodgepodge of a design library.
The website looks great to me, clean and simple, perfect for a project like this. “Not looking like it was made by AI” isn’t something I value for itself in a website, any more than “not looking like it was made with injection molding” is something I would value in a plastic item.
Either it’s good or it isn’t, but it’s not good or bad because of how it was made.
> “not looking like it was made with injection molding”
Aside machining POM, what else is there. Injection molding tend to be great.