The future of supercars is to outlaw them to make any engine noise on the road.
There is no reason to have engine noise other then that not having engine noise is not possible at a given price point. This is obviously not the case with "supercars".
If you want to buy a toy that makes noise, get a non street-legal car for the race track.
There is no reason why 99.9..% of the population should be required to tolerate more (street-)noise than necessary.
Engine noise from traffic is so normalised that it can be hard to picture how it can not exist.
I only got the feeling of how much calmer it felt without engines revving all around after visiting Guilin, China a couple of years ago. Most cars, trucks, scooters were electric and the only noise I'd hear were tyres rolling, the odd ICE vehicle sounded like a banshee among the rest.
At highway speed, yes. But it's mostly cities where the complaints are. And at sane city speeds engine noise predominates.
And at highway speed the exceptions like Harley's and glass-packs and high rpm super cars are the problem. It's not the steady whoosh of tire noise that wakes you up in the middle of the night.
Often by design (either the manufacturer or the rider swapping to a louder exhaust) there isn't any reason they can't be quieter and many of them are off the forecourt.
The common argument you run into why people make them loud is its for "safety" but that's always felt like a thin excuse to justify "hey, look at me!" loud exhausts.
Yes, I've owned motorcycles, I commuted using one to work for years, no it been "quiet" didn't make it any less safe.
I do occasionally think about getting another one but the animus simply isn't there any more, I think if I needed transport these days I'd just get a car, for commuting a motorcycle was brilliant (it's legal in the UK to lane split which in heavy rush hour traffic is a real time saver) and they are cheaper to run but in every other way it was strictly worse than a car.
I don't have a link but I recall that someone did a study that revealed that there was no safety improvement from loud exhaust and the only way to improve motorcycle safety was increasing visibility with high-visibility vests.
In my state there are no helmet laws so I always find it amusing that the "loud pipes save lives" crew are the same who wear no helmets or any other protective gear.
When I commuted I wore full high viz motorcycle specific textiles (jacket/trousers), proper boots and a helmet with the highest safety rating (on the SHARP system), as with everything in life you can mitigate the risk (in the case of a motorcyle by riding sensibly and appropriate equipment), you can't remove it and riding a motorcycle is inherently more risky compared to other forms of commuting not least because you are sharing the road with much bigger/much heavier vehicles and you are rare enough that a lot of drivers just don't consider Motorcyles - hell one of our road safety campaigns literally had the slogan "Think! Bike".
Never had an off (riding on the road, many times offroad but that's different), had two near misses - one was sand/crap on the road and the front end started to go and the other was a lady pulling straight out into the road from a blind exit (literally a hole in the wall completely blocking her view), I'd gone past that many times on the way home from work and I always slowed down because I'd flagged it as a "yeah, that's just dangerous" so I had time to stop just, she was very apologetic but that wouldn't have helped me much after I'd ploughed into and over her car.
I enjoyed riding motorcycles but they were always fundamentally a tool to me to get from A to B, my friends who ride strictly for pleasure and much less safely have way more crashes (in one case one of them wrote off two bikes in six weeks...).
I disagree with the way they ride and didn't ride with them even when I had a bike, there are literally track days for that stuff, keep it off the public highway where you risk hurting other people for your "fun".
I don't think you even need to outlaw them. Just add aggressively progressive taxes on externalities, like Norway does (not for noise, but CO2 and NoX emissions as well as curbe weight; adding noise as well shouldn't might be an idea).
Of course you can regulate thresholds that can not be exceeded as well, but generally I think we should tax externalities more rather than outlaw things whenever possible, and do it much more often. Amp those taxes until the perceived problem goes away, whether because sufficient numbers of people won't pay them or because they're high enough to mitigate the negative effects.
When it comes to supercars, I suspect most of them will end up not being on the road much as the proportion of EV cars gets to a point where it starts to reduce the density of places to fill the tank anyway so to the extent they're a problem it will increasingly limit itself and so it's not really worth wasting time on.
Supercars aren't the excessively noisy ones. Those are the modified cars. Many have quiet modes that run off battery so you don't wake up your neighbors.
IMHO, pollution is way worse.
I'd rather a tax on gas so high that commuter ICE cars don't exist anymore. Let the enthusiasts who actually enjoy driving burn gas.
What he actually believes about the future of cars is not the really the point of this statement. The point is to position himself now, today, in the minds of his target audience. EVs are not cool today and nostalgia-driven grievance against them is.
So: the future is the past! Specifically all the stuff you thought was cool when you were 17. But now, you have the money to pay for it.
The manufacturers certainly want the future of supercars to be combustion engines.
Combustion engines are their moat; without them, there is little unique about their vehicles.
But BMW felt the same about regular gasoline cars & hybrids. That didn't turn out too well for them.
YASA motors makes a 30lb electric motor the size of a Roomba that outputs 1000 peak horsepower. The future of many supercars will be hybrids with the electric train doing the brunt of the work.
It's like Swiss watches. Sure, a digital watch would be better but if you're really into mechanics and engineering a fancy hand-made swiss watch is your thing.
I think that's not obvious at all, and quite a personal preference. There's lots of assholes in the area with extremely loud cars who seem to think that way. I have never thought the sound of a engine is cool, pleasant, exciting, impressive, or anything remotely like that. I do like adrenaline and driving fast in almost every form of vehicle, but if I could have a silent maglev sportbike that drove just like a combustion based bike I would choose it in a heartbeat.
My car people are the absolute opposite of you. Almost all of us want noise but it doesn’t have to be obnoxious. Most high end car with high end engines have switches that will control the exhaust valve.
Schermer JA. A desire for a loud car with a modified muffler is predicted by being a man and higher scores on psychopathy and sadism. Curr Issues Personal Psychol. 2023 Apr 14;11(4):339-343. doi: https://doi.org/10.5114/CIPP/162006 PMID: 38075464; PMCID: PMC10699294.
> Researchers noted that modifying a vehicle to make an illegal, disruptive noise at a distance demonstrates the callous disregard for other people's feelings that defines psychopathy.
> Because the sudden noise startles and scares pedestrians or animals, the drivers frequently score high on everyday sadism, meaning they derive personal joy from minorly distressing or startling others.
> Contrary to my hypothesis, narcissism was not a significant predictor when the other personality dimensions were included. This finding suggests that people may not, in fact, be making their vehicles louder to draw attention to themselves or to say, “Look at me!”
> The results are concerning in that they suggest that individuals who make their vehicles loud may be doing so to deliberately hurt others by disturbing them and that these individuals may be motivated by the negative state that they cause others. Although the study is a pilot study and requires replication, the results are perhaps especially concerning because some media outlets are reporting that the frequency of vehicles with loud exhaust systems has been increasing.
There are only ~420 refineries globally still operating. ~21% of global oil refining capacity (101 out of 420 assessed sites) is at risk of closure by 2035 due to rising carbon costs, environmental policies, and a long-term drop in gasoline demand. [My note: this is less than 10 years away]
I used to think "We're never going to run out of oil, meaning we'll never move off of it." and I was mistaken. After more research, I've come to the conclusion that while we might never run out of oil, refinery capacity will only decline into the future, creating supply chain death spirals over time in various parts of the system. If you want to end the use of fossil fuels, refineries are the weakest link in the chain. No new ones will be built due to the risk of stranded capital and the time to build them considering the forward global oil demand trajectory. [My note: China destroys 1M barrels of daily global oil demand for every 24 months they produce EVs, at current run rates, and has enough EV manufacturing capacity for global demand]
TLDR If rich people are going to burn petroleum instead of biodiesel (used vegetable oil for diesel like engine use cases) or alcohol (top fuel dragsters), good luck refining it yourself or importing it. Similar to how if the end of the world arrives, and you need pharmaceuticals to survive, you'll only last as long as the supply chain for said pharmaceuticals survives if you cannot make it yourself.
well of course it is: it's for rich assholes who need to separate themselves and say "look, I'm an asshole with so much money and so little care, I can purchase a gas powered vehicle and ignore all the rammifications".
Dude is on point to his audience, gotta applause that.
The difference being Swiss watches are elegantly engineered pieces of art whereas internal combustion engines of any kind are essentially just rube goldberg machines that we have collectively normalised as a society.
I think you’re underselling the amount of sophistication and refinement that goes into a modern ICE, which is the backbone of a big part of the global economy.
That doesn't change the fact that they are worse at what they do than an equivalent electric motor. There's zero reason we need ICE. We have better technology, we just don't have the will (at least in America) to fully adopt it.
The future of supercars is to outlaw them to make any engine noise on the road. There is no reason to have engine noise other then that not having engine noise is not possible at a given price point. This is obviously not the case with "supercars".
If you want to buy a toy that makes noise, get a non street-legal car for the race track. There is no reason why 99.9..% of the population should be required to tolerate more (street-)noise than necessary.
Engine noise from traffic is so normalised that it can be hard to picture how it can not exist.
I only got the feeling of how much calmer it felt without engines revving all around after visiting Guilin, China a couple of years ago. Most cars, trucks, scooters were electric and the only noise I'd hear were tyres rolling, the odd ICE vehicle sounded like a banshee among the rest.
most traffic noise is not the engine, its tires and other such noises. modern cars, including combustion ones, make very very little sound
edit: for cars only, motorcycles etc make more
At highway speed, yes. But it's mostly cities where the complaints are. And at sane city speeds engine noise predominates.
And at highway speed the exceptions like Harley's and glass-packs and high rpm super cars are the problem. It's not the steady whoosh of tire noise that wakes you up in the middle of the night.
Not at 30-50km/h, the noise from engines revving from traffic lights overpower the constant tyre rolling noise.
> motorcycles etc make more
Often by design (either the manufacturer or the rider swapping to a louder exhaust) there isn't any reason they can't be quieter and many of them are off the forecourt.
The common argument you run into why people make them loud is its for "safety" but that's always felt like a thin excuse to justify "hey, look at me!" loud exhausts.
Yes, I've owned motorcycles, I commuted using one to work for years, no it been "quiet" didn't make it any less safe.
I do occasionally think about getting another one but the animus simply isn't there any more, I think if I needed transport these days I'd just get a car, for commuting a motorcycle was brilliant (it's legal in the UK to lane split which in heavy rush hour traffic is a real time saver) and they are cheaper to run but in every other way it was strictly worse than a car.
I don't have a link but I recall that someone did a study that revealed that there was no safety improvement from loud exhaust and the only way to improve motorcycle safety was increasing visibility with high-visibility vests.
In my state there are no helmet laws so I always find it amusing that the "loud pipes save lives" crew are the same who wear no helmets or any other protective gear.
> In my state there are no helmet laws.
I still find that one wild.
When I commuted I wore full high viz motorcycle specific textiles (jacket/trousers), proper boots and a helmet with the highest safety rating (on the SHARP system), as with everything in life you can mitigate the risk (in the case of a motorcyle by riding sensibly and appropriate equipment), you can't remove it and riding a motorcycle is inherently more risky compared to other forms of commuting not least because you are sharing the road with much bigger/much heavier vehicles and you are rare enough that a lot of drivers just don't consider Motorcyles - hell one of our road safety campaigns literally had the slogan "Think! Bike".
Never had an off (riding on the road, many times offroad but that's different), had two near misses - one was sand/crap on the road and the front end started to go and the other was a lady pulling straight out into the road from a blind exit (literally a hole in the wall completely blocking her view), I'd gone past that many times on the way home from work and I always slowed down because I'd flagged it as a "yeah, that's just dangerous" so I had time to stop just, she was very apologetic but that wouldn't have helped me much after I'd ploughed into and over her car.
I enjoyed riding motorcycles but they were always fundamentally a tool to me to get from A to B, my friends who ride strictly for pleasure and much less safely have way more crashes (in one case one of them wrote off two bikes in six weeks...).
I disagree with the way they ride and didn't ride with them even when I had a bike, there are literally track days for that stuff, keep it off the public highway where you risk hurting other people for your "fun".
I don't think you even need to outlaw them. Just add aggressively progressive taxes on externalities, like Norway does (not for noise, but CO2 and NoX emissions as well as curbe weight; adding noise as well shouldn't might be an idea).
Of course you can regulate thresholds that can not be exceeded as well, but generally I think we should tax externalities more rather than outlaw things whenever possible, and do it much more often. Amp those taxes until the perceived problem goes away, whether because sufficient numbers of people won't pay them or because they're high enough to mitigate the negative effects.
When it comes to supercars, I suspect most of them will end up not being on the road much as the proportion of EV cars gets to a point where it starts to reduce the density of places to fill the tank anyway so to the extent they're a problem it will increasingly limit itself and so it's not really worth wasting time on.
Them paying to pollute doesn’t solve my problem at all.
This but for motorbikes. I can’t stand people riding them through residential areas in London late at night, revving their engines.
I legit see no reasons for motorbikes to exist, electric or not.
100%!
Supercars aren't the excessively noisy ones. Those are the modified cars. Many have quiet modes that run off battery so you don't wake up your neighbors.
IMHO, pollution is way worse.
I'd rather a tax on gas so high that commuter ICE cars don't exist anymore. Let the enthusiasts who actually enjoy driving burn gas.
Tell us what appliance you drive that makes you an expert on future supercars
What? They're commentating on policy more than anything lol.
Pollution too. Puffing smog into your kids face is insane. Especially bad in places where old diesel cars got absorbed.
[dead]
[flagged]
What he actually believes about the future of cars is not the really the point of this statement. The point is to position himself now, today, in the minds of his target audience. EVs are not cool today and nostalgia-driven grievance against them is.
So: the future is the past! Specifically all the stuff you thought was cool when you were 17. But now, you have the money to pay for it.
Feel like Ferrari Luce was designed specifically to turn people away from the idea of electric super cars.
The manufacturers certainly want the future of supercars to be combustion engines. Combustion engines are their moat; without them, there is little unique about their vehicles. But BMW felt the same about regular gasoline cars & hybrids. That didn't turn out too well for them.
YASA motors makes a 30lb electric motor the size of a Roomba that outputs 1000 peak horsepower. The future of many supercars will be hybrids with the electric train doing the brunt of the work.
https://www.arenaev.com/yasa_makes_a_1000hp_electric_motor_t...
It's like Swiss watches. Sure, a digital watch would be better but if you're really into mechanics and engineering a fancy hand-made swiss watch is your thing.
Imagine if the watch made a loud gurgling sound, that everyone can hear, every time you checked it.
Some arseholes would like that. Look at me, look at me.
It's obvious, now that we have fast, flashy, quiet cars, that part of the appeal of supercars has always been the sound of the engine.
I think that's not obvious at all, and quite a personal preference. There's lots of assholes in the area with extremely loud cars who seem to think that way. I have never thought the sound of a engine is cool, pleasant, exciting, impressive, or anything remotely like that. I do like adrenaline and driving fast in almost every form of vehicle, but if I could have a silent maglev sportbike that drove just like a combustion based bike I would choose it in a heartbeat.
My car people are the absolute opposite of you. Almost all of us want noise but it doesn’t have to be obnoxious. Most high end car with high end engines have switches that will control the exhaust valve.
Schermer JA. A desire for a loud car with a modified muffler is predicted by being a man and higher scores on psychopathy and sadism. Curr Issues Personal Psychol. 2023 Apr 14;11(4):339-343. doi: https://doi.org/10.5114/CIPP/162006 PMID: 38075464; PMCID: PMC10699294.
> Researchers noted that modifying a vehicle to make an illegal, disruptive noise at a distance demonstrates the callous disregard for other people's feelings that defines psychopathy.
> Because the sudden noise startles and scares pedestrians or animals, the drivers frequently score high on everyday sadism, meaning they derive personal joy from minorly distressing or startling others.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/human-individual-dif...
> Contrary to my hypothesis, narcissism was not a significant predictor when the other personality dimensions were included. This finding suggests that people may not, in fact, be making their vehicles louder to draw attention to themselves or to say, “Look at me!”
> The results are concerning in that they suggest that individuals who make their vehicles loud may be doing so to deliberately hurt others by disturbing them and that these individuals may be motivated by the negative state that they cause others. Although the study is a pilot study and requires replication, the results are perhaps especially concerning because some media outlets are reporting that the frequency of vehicles with loud exhaust systems has been increasing.
20 years ago bugatti released 1000hp vehicle. Now it’s not even impressive anymore. Chinese moved to megawatt scale.
Of course in some markets ICE engines will remain mainstream, and in some they are seen as absolute cringe.
Guess only rich people can afford carbon taxes in the future.
There are only ~420 refineries globally still operating. ~21% of global oil refining capacity (101 out of 420 assessed sites) is at risk of closure by 2035 due to rising carbon costs, environmental policies, and a long-term drop in gasoline demand. [My note: this is less than 10 years away]
I used to think "We're never going to run out of oil, meaning we'll never move off of it." and I was mistaken. After more research, I've come to the conclusion that while we might never run out of oil, refinery capacity will only decline into the future, creating supply chain death spirals over time in various parts of the system. If you want to end the use of fossil fuels, refineries are the weakest link in the chain. No new ones will be built due to the risk of stranded capital and the time to build them considering the forward global oil demand trajectory. [My note: China destroys 1M barrels of daily global oil demand for every 24 months they produce EVs, at current run rates, and has enough EV manufacturing capacity for global demand]
TLDR If rich people are going to burn petroleum instead of biodiesel (used vegetable oil for diesel like engine use cases) or alcohol (top fuel dragsters), good luck refining it yourself or importing it. Similar to how if the end of the world arrives, and you need pharmaceuticals to survive, you'll only last as long as the supply chain for said pharmaceuticals survives if you cannot make it yourself.
Global refinery closure outlook to 2035 - https://www.woodmac.com/news/opinion/global-refinery-closure... - March 31st, 2025
(think in systems)
>loud internal combustion engines and emotional appeal.
VW ran the numbers and realized they cant compete with Chinese $100K 2000HP EVs accelerating in 2.5 second and beating any supercar.
well of course it is: it's for rich assholes who need to separate themselves and say "look, I'm an asshole with so much money and so little care, I can purchase a gas powered vehicle and ignore all the rammifications".
Dude is on point to his audience, gotta applause that.
So where’s your line? Do we all need to drive a Prius?
The difference being Swiss watches are elegantly engineered pieces of art whereas internal combustion engines of any kind are essentially just rube goldberg machines that we have collectively normalised as a society.
I think you’re underselling the amount of sophistication and refinement that goes into a modern ICE, which is the backbone of a big part of the global economy.
That doesn't change the fact that they are worse at what they do than an equivalent electric motor. There's zero reason we need ICE. We have better technology, we just don't have the will (at least in America) to fully adopt it.
you are underestimating what it takes to get a car to run at 450 kmph by a magnitude of 10x
Reddit is --> thataway
Person: "I have a tesla roadster that can fly."
Bugatti CEO: "that's not a supercar."