I know statements like this mean well, but man it's so frustrating. It's the same thing as telling a person with depression to "just be happy".
If it were so simple this would've been solved nation wide by Modi's 2014 address.
Where does this education come from? Leaders, but leaders are product of their social environment. To create this change means to go against the norm meaning someone or a few have to break the trend. Then that belief has to take hold in others and THEN the real test begins. It has to be generational, the new generation, by yes, education, needs it to be truth as opposed to a new way. The old guard must die.
Only then will you "solve all social issues by education". Don't even get me started on scale. It works on a village or small country, but more? or a 2nd issue?
> In a country known for its lack of sanitation, this is no small feat. But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping.
This is kind of fascinating to me because the few times I visited India I was completely gobsmacked by the insane levels of trash and pollution such that I never wanted to return. Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner. So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village and not one of the usual "amazingly clean Asian city" suspects, e.g. Singapore or somewhere in Japan.
Yes, on one hand its fascinating, on other its about impossible before end of universe that it would be possible to apply India wide. Right on with Gurugram observation. The latest government way to fix all issue is to change name of the place to something from "glorious Indian past".
In terms of actually responding to eco-disaster I don't think people are there yet to see error and mend their ways. I do not expect this to change at least for next couple of decades.
I've read that Japan had some crazy pollution and littering until regulations and campaigns in the 70s. Alright, I'll admit, I saw it on a Youtube short [1].
There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the change on the Internet (at least not the English Internet), but this Japanese guy's anecdotes seem to corroborate it [2]. It makes sense, a lot of countries started taking pollution and littering more seriously around the 70s. It looks like that's when Japan started regulating it seriously [3]:
> from 24 November to 18 December 1970, 14 pollution control bills were passed into law [...] overnight, Japan was transformed from a country with meagre environmental regulations, to one of the strictest in the OECD.
> Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner
That's because of zoning. Much of Gurgaon isn't zoned as a municipality but as villages, which means there is no unified municipal government in vast swathes of the city. This is the same issue with Bangalore.
Other large Indian cities (eg. Pune, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, Chennai, Hyderabad, etc) are nowhere near as bad
> So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village
My ancestral family is from village and small towns, and counterintuitively they tend to be much cleaner because they have more formally defined municipal and local governments.
Of course, this depends state to state, like everything else in India.
Seems like quite the stretch just to blame it on zoning. Gurugram was particularly bad but the other places around New Delhi I visited weren't much better.
It should be clear that this is about the stress that visiting Indians bring. And their trash.
But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
Venice faces a similar situation with cruise ships and Airbnbs raising the price of housing. They should be capping cruise ship numbers, and a weekend break would be good too.
> But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
I don't think this fits the story at all. They just want a day off. The rest of the week is unrestricted.
Its rooted in culture and how people are socialized to relate to public spaces and the people around them. Here’s Lee Kuan Yew talking about the same problem he faced in Singapore at first: https://medium.com/@barronqasem/the-moral-behind-lee-kuan-ye... (“The difficult part was getting the people to change their habits so that they behaved more like first world citizens, not like third world citizens spitting and littering all over the place.”).
I only really have experience with Americans and Bangladeshis, but in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling. I was talking with a law school professor once after class and dropped a diet coke bottle into the trash in front of her. Without missing a beat she reached into the trash bin to take it out and threw it into the recycling bin.
> in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling
I don't know about that. I've seen many a poorly sorted recycle bin in my life. Americans are definitely in the upper quartile, maybe even the upper decile, of the world as a whole. Among the developed world the country may be just about average.
I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe. And they take that really seriously.
American recycling in a lot of major cities is single-stream - aka you put all recycling together and a central plant sorts it for you. More efficient, more accurate, and it encourages more people to recycle since it's extremely easy.
I've got a suspicion that it was more common a few decades ago. I saw a bit of that in China back in 2007 but I wouldn't be surprised if it's less of a thing now.
How do you reconcile you complaint about complaining about the tourist ban with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says people have the right to freedom of movement within the borders of each state?
Does that Declaration give you an inalienable right to do anything you please? I doubt it. As the old saying goes, your freedom stops where someone else’s freedom starts.
Or in Seinfeld speak, “we live in a society!!!”
Have to consider others not just oneself. That’s the price of freedom and being responsible about it.
The new editorialised title is an improvement, given that most of HN's readership is probably not in the UK, especially not at time of writing: 0130 BST on a Tuesday.
On the contrary, my first thought upon reading the title was "I hope it's not just Japan again". No disrespect to Japan, but articles about Japanese tidiness are a dime a dozen.
More accurately, "bans day trippers on Sundays."
> Visitors who book guesthouse rooms in Mawlynnong through Saturday and Sunday are exempt from the Sunday ban.
> But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age
This needs to be a thing everywhere. Education works to resolve most - if not all - social issues.
I know statements like this mean well, but man it's so frustrating. It's the same thing as telling a person with depression to "just be happy".
If it were so simple this would've been solved nation wide by Modi's 2014 address.
Where does this education come from? Leaders, but leaders are product of their social environment. To create this change means to go against the norm meaning someone or a few have to break the trend. Then that belief has to take hold in others and THEN the real test begins. It has to be generational, the new generation, by yes, education, needs it to be truth as opposed to a new way. The old guard must die.
Only then will you "solve all social issues by education". Don't even get me started on scale. It works on a village or small country, but more? or a 2nd issue?
> In a country known for its lack of sanitation, this is no small feat. But in Mawlynnong, children are taught to tidy up from a young age, with many taking to the streets each morning before school to sweep the town of dead leaves and empty rubbish bins. Villagers see to the disposal of biodegradables and take pride in public landscaping.
Culture is real.
This is kind of fascinating to me because the few times I visited India I was completely gobsmacked by the insane levels of trash and pollution such that I never wanted to return. Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner. So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village and not one of the usual "amazingly clean Asian city" suspects, e.g. Singapore or somewhere in Japan.
Yes, on one hand its fascinating, on other its about impossible before end of universe that it would be possible to apply India wide. Right on with Gurugram observation. The latest government way to fix all issue is to change name of the place to something from "glorious Indian past".
In terms of actually responding to eco-disaster I don't think people are there yet to see error and mend their ways. I do not expect this to change at least for next couple of decades.
I've read that Japan had some crazy pollution and littering until regulations and campaigns in the 70s. Alright, I'll admit, I saw it on a Youtube short [1].
There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the change on the Internet (at least not the English Internet), but this Japanese guy's anecdotes seem to corroborate it [2]. It makes sense, a lot of countries started taking pollution and littering more seriously around the 70s. It looks like that's when Japan started regulating it seriously [3]:
> from 24 November to 18 December 1970, 14 pollution control bills were passed into law [...] overnight, Japan was transformed from a country with meagre environmental regulations, to one of the strictest in the OECD.
1. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PP60G-lMiDA
2. https://tour-hiro.com/blog/culture/5721/
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_Diet
> Like Gurugram reminded me of some type of ecological disaster dystopia out of Blade Runner
That's because of zoning. Much of Gurgaon isn't zoned as a municipality but as villages, which means there is no unified municipal government in vast swathes of the city. This is the same issue with Bangalore.
Other large Indian cities (eg. Pune, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, Chennai, Hyderabad, etc) are nowhere near as bad
> So I was particularly glad to see this story was about an Indian village
My ancestral family is from village and small towns, and counterintuitively they tend to be much cleaner because they have more formally defined municipal and local governments.
Of course, this depends state to state, like everything else in India.
Seems like quite the stretch just to blame it on zoning. Gurugram was particularly bad but the other places around New Delhi I visited weren't much better.
It should be clear that this is about the stress that visiting Indians bring. And their trash.
But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
Venice faces a similar situation with cruise ships and Airbnbs raising the price of housing. They should be capping cruise ship numbers, and a weekend break would be good too.
> But it also highlights how you need to restrict access to move up the value chain. Hordes of bus tourists who eat elsewhere or bring take away contribute little economically, you can sell some trinkets. People with a hotel booking are also likely to eat locally.
I don't think this fits the story at all. They just want a day off. The rest of the week is unrestricted.
Surely a tax would be a better incentive mechanism than a hard cap.
Cleaner than Japan? That's something...
cleaner than Singapore or Thailand would really be something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewing_gum_sales_ban_in_Singa...
Ah the age old story of something being loved to death.
> Do not spit" signs
> Some tourists have complained about the ban, saying it should have been implemented on a weekday instead
These should not be a thing. What is it that makes folk feel so entitled?
"Lack of litter bins"; isn't an excuse. I've seen folk stand next to a litter bin, light up and then throw the cigarettes end to the ground.
You're literally standing next to a litter bin!
It should be common sense not to spit nor to litter. Spitting is the worse and I see it all the time here in the UK.
It really bothers me when they spit on days where it is below freezing. It becomes a slip hazard on sidewalks.
Its rooted in culture and how people are socialized to relate to public spaces and the people around them. Here’s Lee Kuan Yew talking about the same problem he faced in Singapore at first: https://medium.com/@barronqasem/the-moral-behind-lee-kuan-ye... (“The difficult part was getting the people to change their habits so that they behaved more like first world citizens, not like third world citizens spitting and littering all over the place.”).
I only really have experience with Americans and Bangladeshis, but in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling. I was talking with a law school professor once after class and dropped a diet coke bottle into the trash in front of her. Without missing a beat she reached into the trash bin to take it out and threw it into the recycling bin.
> in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling
I don't know about that. I've seen many a poorly sorted recycle bin in my life. Americans are definitely in the upper quartile, maybe even the upper decile, of the world as a whole. Among the developed world the country may be just about average.
I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe. And they take that really seriously.
American recycling in a lot of major cities is single-stream - aka you put all recycling together and a central plant sorts it for you. More efficient, more accurate, and it encourages more people to recycle since it's extremely easy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stream_recycling
> I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe.
I guess my bar is on the floor lol.
> stand next to a litter bin, light up and then throw the cigarettes end to the ground.
If the litter bin doesn’t have an ashtray (like most in the US), maybe they were worried about starting a trash fire?
What in hell? I haven’t seen or heard people spit on sidewalks other than some homeless people in ages.
In parts of Asia where people chew betel nut, of course that’s a different story -they put the old west custom of spitting tobacco chew to shame.
I've got a suspicion that it was more common a few decades ago. I saw a bit of that in China back in 2007 but I wouldn't be surprised if it's less of a thing now.
Its so mindboggling. Littering wssnt even an option in my head as a child. Always carry your trash until you can properly dispose.
What the hell is wrong with people?
Same here. I find it hard to understand people who litter.
How do you reconcile you complaint about complaining about the tourist ban with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says people have the right to freedom of movement within the borders of each state?
Does that Declaration give you an inalienable right to do anything you please? I doubt it. As the old saying goes, your freedom stops where someone else’s freedom starts.
Or in Seinfeld speak, “we live in a society!!!”
Have to consider others not just oneself. That’s the price of freedom and being responsible about it.
The alternative is a nanny state or anarchy.
India doesn't give a shit about that. They have restricted civil areas that require visitor clearance even for citizens.
Nothing is stopping you from travelling within the borders. A village is nothing more than a province within the state.
If the law ruled: "you may not traverse through the state on Sundays"; then one could argue that is a breach of human rights.
However, the last time I checked, detours exist. Enabling you to bypass a village that may be closed on Sundays.
If you're a tourist and a village says no, why can't you obey that, why does that upset you?
bans only 1 day? man, I'd expand that to include mondays and tuesdays
Reading the title generates imagery of a city in Japan being overrun by foreigners.
The actual content is about a self-proclaimed 'Asia's cleanest village' in India, banning Sunday visits from other domestic Indians.
Probably wouldn't be a popular story if this was revealed in the title.
The article is on the BBC site, so Asia means India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/etc.
Japan is Japan.
The new editorialised title is an improvement, given that most of HN's readership is probably not in the UK, especially not at time of writing: 0130 BST on a Tuesday.
On the contrary, my first thought upon reading the title was "I hope it's not just Japan again". No disrespect to Japan, but articles about Japanese tidiness are a dime a dozen.