As a counterpoint to all the negative comments here, it’s entirely possible the CTO knows it’s gonna take x time to get your company laptop, which precisely because it’s a regulated industry might mean days/weeks of you waiting around with nothing to do
In that situation it makes sense for you to bring a personal laptop which you can use to access non confidential stuff, you might not write any code in it and might just be given docs to read through
Yeah this thread is making a lot of assumptions. Maybe the machine has been ordered, or they need to do HR type onboarding for the first few hours, or any number of reasons. Every job I've ever started I bring my own machine just in case and it has been fine.
It's only a red flag when they specifically ask you to start doing work on your own machine.
I like this take. And I have been in that position before, get my self familiarized with whatever frameworks they are using.
But actual code, that's gonna need a work issued machine. They had over a week now since I accepted the offer and they have an MSP, so it's a bit odd for it to take that long.
It's not uncommon. You're probably not going to work on anything serious until they get you one, but until then it'll be much more useful than a phone, when it comes to looking things up or viewing pertinent web pages or videos. Avoid putting any sensitive data on your laptop, as it likely won't be as secure as the one they set up for you. Even if it's a small startup, in California there's a bunch of bureaucracy around onboarding new hires. I joke that there's a small-business-industrial-complex that makes its income bleeding small businesses dry offering compliance services.
Fun fact: When you're new employer makes you read a bunch policy, or watch videos about them, it's called indoctrination. It literally means learning, but outside of business context it has a much harsher connotation.
Well, you should send this ‘yeah, I can bring my personal laptop while my machine gets set up - when will my company issued device be available?’ Oh and yeah, bring a comically old laptop running an obscure Linux distro. DSL would be best.
Oof. That's a bright red flag: Regulated industry and own laptop? Please tell me at least if they asked you to install a new harddrive and company VPN. If not, the company is probably compliance theater and has no business being in the business. God have mercy on their customers.
How to handle it? If you can afford it, leave and don't come back. If not, bring it up first thing you see your manager, latest on your first 1-1. This can't go on. If he brushes off, check if he intends to work you hard like 996. That usually means they are looking to use your work and find a reason to fire you asap afterwards.
Just out of curiosity: Did you oversell yourself during the interviews?
The only person higher I can go to is the CEO. And yes, their customer is celebrating a birthday today, I am sure they wouldn't be happy to hear about employees working on personal machines.
I don't oversell myself in interviews, most of my work in the last 7 years has been inbound referrals, so it is just a team fit interview most of the time.
Using your personal laptop for work is unheard of for anything other than a startup that is still a couple dudes in their basement. (Where you are one of the original dudes)
I would take out my personal SSD, put in a blank one and freshly install the needed OS.
Just to conform, and in case I needed a working machine until I found out whether they were serious enough to properly supply the necessities.
If not, then I could carry on with my own "good as new" laptop dedicated to the employer as long as necessary until I had collected enough pay to get an additional one for myself. Nicer one too.
It isn't actually about the machine you use. It is about why they choose not to give your the tools you need to do the job. If they cannot afford it, how can you believe they will afford your paycheck, or even keep the doors opens? IF they refuse to give you the resources to do the job on your first day, what will happen when you need something else down the road? Or are they just trying to minimize their expenses and resources give to employees?
Using your machine "until I found out whether they were serious enough to properly supply the necessities." makes no sense whatsoever. They aren't. You don't need to waste any energy finding out, they fact that they asked gave you your answer.
Sadly Mac's are all soldered in these days. My first Macbook Pro back in 2009 had so many mods, that I even took out the disc drive and used a special cradle to have a second SSD.
To me the bigger issue is asking me to bring a laptop with me in the first place. But I will see how it plays out on Monday. As I said in another comment, I know the drill, no personal equipment ever touches company IP.
You might want to bring a 100 $ old Lenovo such as x200 (ideally with Libreboot, to justify youself)
Or you may go further and bring a 30 $ used/old laptop with 1G ram and a stipped-down Linux such as Alpine+fluxbox. Your employer should quickly understand that they need to give you a new machine for you to be productive :)
Or even further, you may also say that you only have a fixed desktop computer and no laptop.
If only I still had my Lenovo S10 netbook from 2009 to bring in, I totally would. But if they can't get me a machine to do my job, I am concerned about my paycheck showing up.
Maybe it's my age talking but if a company pulled that on me here's what I'd do:
Show up on Monday without a computer. When asked, explain that they're the employer, its standard to pay for a work machine for me, and that its downright pathetic that they can't or won't.
Yes, I'd call them out. It's clearly a power move, and I'd put it right back to them. Pathetic.
I have considered that. The only reason I will bring it with me is if I need to fill out any other on-boarding paper work, but that is the limit. Maybe off-boarding as well if they don't take it well.
No way they could ever pass an ITAR or SOC 2 audit with employees using their own machines. Data security is critical part of these governmental frameworks and having a set of controls in place that companies must comply with if they are to be certified. Keeping ITAR data on an employee's personal PC that is open to the internet is probably one of the biggest no-no's I can envision.
It amazes me what supposed SOC2 "compliant" companies are willing to skimp on. A recent employer of mine, also regulated kept fighting me on getting me a work laptop. Also another funded SF based startup.
I think it just doesn’t occur to companies of a certain size. I was similarly flummoxed when my current job also assumed I was BYOPC, though they acquiesced to buy me a Mac when I asked. But, the rest of the team still uses their desktops and (!!) has trouble when traveling and being forced to use an alternate development environment.
I was baffled when a large global consulting firm had me use my personal laptop and iPad (which they filmed to show off my work to other clients) for a month before getting me setup. And that was in 2018, I was desperate for work at the time.
Red flag. Never work on company stuff on personal machine. They need to get their act together and provide equipment. You show up; you get paid--even if they are still provisioning your equipment.
In the meantime, shadow folks, attend standups, get to know your colleagues, the products, etc.
That's my plan, or they can buy my existing laptop at market rate on the spot and I will happily flash it. But in all reality they can walk down to Union Square Apple store across the street and pick up a MacBook.
If your job requires an ITAR license then it will take a week or two from the first day until you get to access the codebase after clearing your license.
I've renegotiated (and given up) start dates for less. I'd "forget" and offer my phone as a substitute... expecting they'd get too comfortable calling or asking for work-adjacent things before preparations.
What's the rush, why not enjoy another week in the garden? Surely the paperwork and meet/greets can wait. On their part I'm seeing a lack of preparedness, adaptability, or boundaries; unsure which. Maybe a combination. Are you ready for this to consistently happen? They certainly seem more eager than anything else.
If/when they do get around to providing, I suspect it won't be long until your personal laptop collection grows with the end of another startup.
Odds are you can get your job done with a 500$ laptop if push comes to shove.
Now of course you can show up without a laptop and get into a nasty argument about them needing to provide you equipment. You’d be right, but they’d have the option to fire you on the spot. Even if this isn’t technically legal, you don’t have much recourse.
It’s up to you.
Everyone else here is going to keep downvoting me, and not a single one of them will help you find a new job.
This happened to my wife at a small PR firm. She told them she doesn't have a laptop (she didn't really have a functional one) and they just bought her a personal one as a 'signing bonus' and they have her bring it in.
It's a bit unusual, it's a yellow flag for sure, but it depends on how desperate you are for a job. If that's the worst thing about the company, it's not so bad, I've definitely worked for worse.
I'd tell them "i don't have a laptop, just a desktop" and see what they say? If they seem like they're going to not hire you for that, I agree with what other folks said, buy a cheap chromebook.
Happened to me before too, it happens, it’s not a redflag, it’s more of the company is small and they don’t have enough established policies regarding those stuff, to be fair, I like it that way, too much policies make feel like suffocating. For you, you can grab a good thinkpad for $200 and use it solely for work, it won’t break the bank.
As a counterpoint to all the negative comments here, it’s entirely possible the CTO knows it’s gonna take x time to get your company laptop, which precisely because it’s a regulated industry might mean days/weeks of you waiting around with nothing to do
In that situation it makes sense for you to bring a personal laptop which you can use to access non confidential stuff, you might not write any code in it and might just be given docs to read through
Yeah this thread is making a lot of assumptions. Maybe the machine has been ordered, or they need to do HR type onboarding for the first few hours, or any number of reasons. Every job I've ever started I bring my own machine just in case and it has been fine.
It's only a red flag when they specifically ask you to start doing work on your own machine.
I am going in with a positive attitude that this is the case, but 100% with you no actual coding starts on my personal machine.
I like this take. And I have been in that position before, get my self familiarized with whatever frameworks they are using.
But actual code, that's gonna need a work issued machine. They had over a week now since I accepted the offer and they have an MSP, so it's a bit odd for it to take that long.
why not just ask the CTO and company directly if that's the case?
but honestly it's still a bad look for the company that:
1. did not communicate that X timeline in advance 2. did not pre-order when they offered the offer letter or when OP signed the letter
It's not uncommon. You're probably not going to work on anything serious until they get you one, but until then it'll be much more useful than a phone, when it comes to looking things up or viewing pertinent web pages or videos. Avoid putting any sensitive data on your laptop, as it likely won't be as secure as the one they set up for you. Even if it's a small startup, in California there's a bunch of bureaucracy around onboarding new hires. I joke that there's a small-business-industrial-complex that makes its income bleeding small businesses dry offering compliance services.
Fun fact: When you're new employer makes you read a bunch policy, or watch videos about them, it's called indoctrination. It literally means learning, but outside of business context it has a much harsher connotation.
Well, you should send this ‘yeah, I can bring my personal laptop while my machine gets set up - when will my company issued device be available?’ Oh and yeah, bring a comically old laptop running an obscure Linux distro. DSL would be best.
I agree with this. Gotta bring Red Star linux for maximum comedic effect given the regulated nature of the job.
fyi Amazon has toy laptops for kids for pretty cheap....
If I am just going to wait for a laptop and read documentation in the meantime, I am not gonna subject myself to that.
PS: I like using your app!
Oof. That's a bright red flag: Regulated industry and own laptop? Please tell me at least if they asked you to install a new harddrive and company VPN. If not, the company is probably compliance theater and has no business being in the business. God have mercy on their customers.
How to handle it? If you can afford it, leave and don't come back. If not, bring it up first thing you see your manager, latest on your first 1-1. This can't go on. If he brushes off, check if he intends to work you hard like 996. That usually means they are looking to use your work and find a reason to fire you asap afterwards.
Just out of curiosity: Did you oversell yourself during the interviews?
The only person higher I can go to is the CEO. And yes, their customer is celebrating a birthday today, I am sure they wouldn't be happy to hear about employees working on personal machines.
I don't oversell myself in interviews, most of my work in the last 7 years has been inbound referrals, so it is just a team fit interview most of the time.
Using your personal laptop for work is unheard of for anything other than a startup that is still a couple dudes in their basement. (Where you are one of the original dudes)
Run away.
Right there with you. I'll have to see how it plays out on Monday.
I would take out my personal SSD, put in a blank one and freshly install the needed OS.
Just to conform, and in case I needed a working machine until I found out whether they were serious enough to properly supply the necessities.
If not, then I could carry on with my own "good as new" laptop dedicated to the employer as long as necessary until I had collected enough pay to get an additional one for myself. Nicer one too.
Before even thinking about making any waves.
It isn't actually about the machine you use. It is about why they choose not to give your the tools you need to do the job. If they cannot afford it, how can you believe they will afford your paycheck, or even keep the doors opens? IF they refuse to give you the resources to do the job on your first day, what will happen when you need something else down the road? Or are they just trying to minimize their expenses and resources give to employees?
Using your machine "until I found out whether they were serious enough to properly supply the necessities." makes no sense whatsoever. They aren't. You don't need to waste any energy finding out, they fact that they asked gave you your answer.
Sadly Mac's are all soldered in these days. My first Macbook Pro back in 2009 had so many mods, that I even took out the disc drive and used a special cradle to have a second SSD.
I'm surprised at the immediate leaps to conclusions here...
Why not text him back and ask him why directly? This could all be clarified in a few messages.
To me the bigger issue is asking me to bring a laptop with me in the first place. But I will see how it plays out on Monday. As I said in another comment, I know the drill, no personal equipment ever touches company IP.
You might want to bring a 100 $ old Lenovo such as x200 (ideally with Libreboot, to justify youself)
Or you may go further and bring a 30 $ used/old laptop with 1G ram and a stipped-down Linux such as Alpine+fluxbox. Your employer should quickly understand that they need to give you a new machine for you to be productive :)
Or even further, you may also say that you only have a fixed desktop computer and no laptop.
Buy a $50 used chromebook and take it in.
If only I still had my Lenovo S10 netbook from 2009 to bring in, I totally would. But if they can't get me a machine to do my job, I am concerned about my paycheck showing up.
Maybe it's my age talking but if a company pulled that on me here's what I'd do:
Show up on Monday without a computer. When asked, explain that they're the employer, its standard to pay for a work machine for me, and that its downright pathetic that they can't or won't.
Yes, I'd call them out. It's clearly a power move, and I'd put it right back to them. Pathetic.
I have considered that. The only reason I will bring it with me is if I need to fill out any other on-boarding paper work, but that is the limit. Maybe off-boarding as well if they don't take it well.
Why can't they buy a $50 used chromebook what is ponders my mind.
No way they could ever pass an ITAR or SOC 2 audit with employees using their own machines. Data security is critical part of these governmental frameworks and having a set of controls in place that companies must comply with if they are to be certified. Keeping ITAR data on an employee's personal PC that is open to the internet is probably one of the biggest no-no's I can envision.
It amazes me what supposed SOC2 "compliant" companies are willing to skimp on. A recent employer of mine, also regulated kept fighting me on getting me a work laptop. Also another funded SF based startup.
I think it just doesn’t occur to companies of a certain size. I was similarly flummoxed when my current job also assumed I was BYOPC, though they acquiesced to buy me a Mac when I asked. But, the rest of the team still uses their desktops and (!!) has trouble when traveling and being forced to use an alternate development environment.
I was baffled when a large global consulting firm had me use my personal laptop and iPad (which they filmed to show off my work to other clients) for a month before getting me setup. And that was in 2018, I was desperate for work at the time.
Red flag. Never work on company stuff on personal machine. They need to get their act together and provide equipment. You show up; you get paid--even if they are still provisioning your equipment.
In the meantime, shadow folks, attend standups, get to know your colleagues, the products, etc.
That's my plan, or they can buy my existing laptop at market rate on the spot and I will happily flash it. But in all reality they can walk down to Union Square Apple store across the street and pick up a MacBook.
If your job requires an ITAR license then it will take a week or two from the first day until you get to access the codebase after clearing your license.
Run Consider if you really want/need to join them. Working in a regulated space for a company that is asking this to a new hire seems dangerous
I need the paycheck, but I have plenty of runway.
I've renegotiated (and given up) start dates for less. I'd "forget" and offer my phone as a substitute... expecting they'd get too comfortable calling or asking for work-adjacent things before preparations.
What's the rush, why not enjoy another week in the garden? Surely the paperwork and meet/greets can wait. On their part I'm seeing a lack of preparedness, adaptability, or boundaries; unsure which. Maybe a combination. Are you ready for this to consistently happen? They certainly seem more eager than anything else.
If/when they do get around to providing, I suspect it won't be long until your personal laptop collection grows with the end of another startup.
Buy a new laptop.
I didn’t get a work laptop when I was at a mega corp and the pay was absurdly good.
I ended up remote desktoping into a secured pc anyway.
Don’t put your personal stuff on the laptop for any reason. If money is a concern buy a laptop from Costco.
90 day return policy in case the first check bounces or something.
If the pay was absurdly good, I will gladly do whatever is needed. But it's not.
Ok.
Your options are still.
Show up on your first day with a laptop.
Show up on your first day without a laptop.
My suggestion stands.
Odds are you can get your job done with a 500$ laptop if push comes to shove.
Now of course you can show up without a laptop and get into a nasty argument about them needing to provide you equipment. You’d be right, but they’d have the option to fire you on the spot. Even if this isn’t technically legal, you don’t have much recourse.
It’s up to you.
Everyone else here is going to keep downvoting me, and not a single one of them will help you find a new job.
This happened to my wife at a small PR firm. She told them she doesn't have a laptop (she didn't really have a functional one) and they just bought her a personal one as a 'signing bonus' and they have her bring it in.
It's a bit unusual, it's a yellow flag for sure, but it depends on how desperate you are for a job. If that's the worst thing about the company, it's not so bad, I've definitely worked for worse.
I'd tell them "i don't have a laptop, just a desktop" and see what they say? If they seem like they're going to not hire you for that, I agree with what other folks said, buy a cheap chromebook.
Happened to me before too, it happens, it’s not a redflag, it’s more of the company is small and they don’t have enough established policies regarding those stuff, to be fair, I like it that way, too much policies make feel like suffocating. For you, you can grab a good thinkpad for $200 and use it solely for work, it won’t break the bank.
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