Any lawsuit you read, written by the plaintiff's attorneys, will be written with a tabloid level of sensationalism, cherry-picking, and "telling you how to feel". This is going to be a jury trial, so on some level the game is "would you rather settle out of court (where hundreds of thousands are grains of sand on Google's level), or have a jury read our tabloid and decide while you, the faceless megacorporation, try to swim uphill against it."
To an extent, logs like this are incredibly personal - or at least I'd consider them such - so I'd understand if they're not being released publicly for many reasons relating to that.
The kind of vulnerability that shows when someone is susceptible to influences like this isn't exactly the kind of thing you'd want to widely publicize about someone you loved, you know?
Google will not release the chat logs publically, it's up to the court how to handle them, but the bar for "the public cannot see this" is generally much higher than "well that's embarrassing". If this goes to trial, they will most likely become available.
Remember that the idea of the court is to be public and transparent, with judgement coming from the jury, but also to be judged by society on the whole. So if you're gonna sue your kink provider, be prepared for everyone to know how you get off, because after all, the court is owned by, and serves, the public.
Yeah this seems as clear cut a case as you could want. That doesn't automatically mean Google is going to get held liable but if any case would result in it this one will.
I think it’s already time for us to stop calling these things "intelligent" or using the word intelligence when referring to LLMs. These tools are very dangerous for people who are mentally fragile.
I try to avoid calling LLMs intelligent when unnecessary, but it runs into the fundamental problem that they are intelligent by any common-sense definition of the term. The only way to defend the thesis that they aren't is to retreat to esoteric post-2022 definitions of intelligence, which take into account this new phenomenon of a machine that can engage in medium-quality discussions on any topic under the sun but can't count reliably.
I don't have a WSJ subscription, but other coverage of this story (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/mar/04/gemini-ch...) makes it clear that Gemini's intelligence was precisely the problem in this case; a less intelligent chatbot would not have been able to create the detailed, immersive narrative the victim got trapped in.
It's interesting how the Turing Test was pretty widely accepted as a way to evaluate machine intelligence, and then quietly abandoned pretty much instantly once machines were able to pass it. I don't even necessarily think that was incorrect, but it's interesting how rapidly views changed.
Dijkstra said, "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim." Well, we have some very fish-y submarines these days. But the point still holds. Rather than worry about whether these things qualify as "intelligent," look at their actual capabilities. That's what matters.
"Proper" may be doing some work here, but such a test was run last year and GPT-4.5 and LLaMa-3.1-405B both passed. Oddly, GPT-4.5 was judged as human significantly more often than chance. https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.23674
Sure but my father isn't asking his fellow humans unanswerable questions about God and the universe. People don't treat other people as omnipotent, but they sure as hell treat LLMs as though they are.
Funny you mention God and this statement, because believing in any particular God that says they are omnipotent is believing that humans are, since you know humans made this crap up.
Given the opportunity a very large part of the population will quickly absolve themselves of any responsibility and put it on another human/system/made up entity.
So is television. So are books. Vulnerable people shouldn't have unfettered access to things that can lead to dangerous feedback loops and losing their grasp on reality.
People who are vulnerable to this type of thing need caretakers, or to be institutionalized. These aren't just average, every day random people getting taken out by AIs, they have existing, extreme mental illness. They need to have their entire routine curated and managed, preventing them from interacting with things that can result in dangerous outcomes. Anything that can trigger obsessive behaviors, paranoid delusions, etc.
They're not just fragile, they're unable to effectively engage with reality on their own. Sometimes the right medication and behavioral training gets them to a point where they can have limited independence, but often times, they need a lifetime of supervision.
Telenovelas, brand names, celebrities, specific food items, a word - AI is just the latest thing in a world full of phenomena that can utterly consume their reality.
Gavalas seems to have had a psychotic break, was likely susceptible to schizophrenia, or had other conditions, and spiraled out. AI is just a convenient target for lawyers taking advantage of the grieving parents, who want an explanation for what happened that doesn't involve them not recognizing their son's mental breakdown and intervening, or to confront being powerless despite everything they did to intervene.
Sometimes bad things happen. To good people, too.
If he'd used Bic pens to write his plans for mass shootings, should Bic be held responsible? What if he used Microsoft Word to write his suicide note? If he googled things that in context, painted a picture of planning mass murder and suicide, should Google be held accountable for not notifying authorities? Why should the use of AI tools be any different?
Google should not be surveilling users and making judgments about legality or ethicality or morality. They shouldn't be intervening without specific warrants and legal oversight by proper authorities within the constraints of due process.
Google isn't responsible for this guy's death because he spiraled out while using Gemini. We don't want Google, or any other AI platform, to take that responsibility or to engage in the necessary invasive surveillance in order to accomplish that. That's absurd and far more evil than the tragedy of one man dying by suicide and using AI through the process.
You don't want Google or OpenAI making mental health diagnoses, judgments about your state of mind, character, or agency, and initiating actions with legal consequences. You don't want Claude or ChatGPT initiating a 5150, or triggering a welfare check, because they decided something is off about the way you're prompting, and they feel legally obligated to go that far because they want to avoid liability.
I hope this case gets tossed, but also that those parents find some sort of peace, it's a terrible situation all around.
> If he'd used Bic pens to write his plans for mass shootings, should Bic be held responsible?
I think the scale of the assistance is important. If his Bic pen was encouraging him to mass murder people, then Bic should absolutely be held accountable.
LLMs are intelligent. Marketing them as such is an accurate descriptor of what they are.
If people are confusing the word intelligence for things like maturity or wisdom, that's not a marketing problem, that's an education and culture problem, and we should be getting people to learn more about what the tools are and how they work. The platforms themselves frequently disclaim reliance on their tools - seek professional guidance, experts, doctors, lawyers, etc. They're not being marketed as substitutes for expert human judgment. In fact, all the AI companies are marketing their platforms as augmentations for humans - insisting you need a human in the loop, to be careful about hallucinations, and so forth.
The implication is that there's some liability for misunderstandings or improper use due to these tools being marketed as intelligent; I'm not sure I see how that could be?
Calling LLMs "intelligent" is not a neutral technical description, because in the end it carries strong anthropomorphic implications that shape how users interpret and trust all these systems.
Remember that decades of research in human computer interaction show that framing and interface design strongly influence user perception.
also disclaimers do little to counteract this effect. Because LLMs simulate linguistic competence without understanding or truth-tracking mechanisms, marketing them as intelligent risks systematically misleading users about their capabilities and limitations.
>because in the end it carries strong anthropomorphic implications
I mean that is typical human ego at play. My dog is intelligent, and there is no system of definitions of intelligent that doesn't overlap humans and dogs. Yet I won't let my dog drive my car.
> These aren't just average, every day random people getting taken out by AIs, they have existing, extreme mental illness.
How do you know that? The concern is precisely that this isn't the case, and LLM roleplay is capable of "hooking" people going through psychologically normal sadness or distress. That's what the family believes happened in this story.
Because you'd see a large number of people getting affected by this. Because this sort of thing is predictable and normal throughout history; it's exactly the type of thing you'd expect to see, knowing the range of mental illnesses people are susceptible to, and how other technology has affected them.
I do see a large number of people getting affected by this. Character.AI reportedly has 20 million MAU with an average usage of 75 minutes per day (https://www.wired.com/story/character-ai-ceo-chatbots-entert...), and does not as far as I can tell have any use case other than boundary-degrading roleplay.
Medical data is reported on a substantial lag in the US, so right now we have no idea of the suicide rate last year, but I would falsifiably predict it's going to be elevated because of stories like those of Mr. Gavalas.
If its sole contribution is to help 20 million people find an outlet for boundary play that is not the more common ‘nonconsensual abuse of other human beings’, then that sounds like a win. Of course I’d prefer those people invest in human kink communities, but I can certainly respect their choices not to. Tech has always in part been about meeting needs that some parts of society find awkward (photocopiers enabled Spirkfic, CU-SeeMe reflectors were designed specifically to support exhib-cruising years before the web got webcam support, etc.) While there’s a slim chance that some might normalize it back into real life, they’re much more likely to be raised with boundary abuse as an everyday-normal by their parents (especially here in the U.S.!) than they are likely to be converted to being an abuser unknowingly by a chatbot.
I would gently suggest that the content you consume online has led you to a distorted view of how most people perceive the world. I happen to know what you're talking about, but there's a lot of people out there who will be gravely offended and make quite severe judgements of your personal character if you talk to them about "boundary play" or "kink communities" unprompted.
The boundaries I was referring to are those between "the AI is a product being provided to you" and "the AI is a human-like being Google has matched you with". I'm polite and respectful to AI agents and encourage other people to be, but it's very dangerous to make people start thinking of them as a friend or partner. I'm sure Gemini is perfectly nice to the extent that LLMs can be nice, but you can't be friends with it any more than you can be friends with Alphabet Inc. It's just not the kind of thing to which friendship can validly attach.
Just stuff anyone with mental illness into an institution. That worked out so well last time. Or maybe make healthcare affordable and accessible. That seems like a way more obvious detriment to negative outcomes.
I broadly agree with you, but your views on mental illness are not good.
The core problem is that a not-insignificant number of mentally ill people are absolutely convinced that they are totally fine and sane, and legally you cannot force an adult into treatment.
I have had conversations where the bot started with a firm opinion but reversed in a prompt or two, always toward my point of view.
So I asked it if the sycophancy is inherent in the design, or if it just comes from the RLHF. It claimed that it's all about the RLHF, and that the sycophancy is a business decision that is a compromise of a variety of forces.
Is that right? It would at least mean that this is technically a solvable problem.
I don’t think it is. The thing that needs to be kept in mind is that at the end of the day the basic building block of the AI systems is a fancy autocomplete. And I’m not saying this to somehow diminish it. It just means that it’s going to produce the statistically most likely continuation to a given source text. So if you keep pressing on with your point of view, it gets more and more likely for the statistically likely conversation to start agreeing with you. Unless there’s something in the context window that makes you obviously wrong.
Any mental illness mixed with delusions is likely going to end badly. Whether they think Gemini is alive, a video game is real life or that Bjork loves them without ever talking to or meeting them. While LLM's are interactive and listening to an album isn't I don't think there is a fix to this outside posting a warning after every prompt "I am not a real person, if you have mental issues please contact your doctor of emergency services." Which I think is about as useful as a sign in a casino next to the cash out counter that says if you have a problem call this number.
I'm more inclined to believe that this case is getting amplified in MSM because it fits an agenda. Like the people who got hurt using black market vapes. Boosting those stories and making it seem like an epidemic supports whatever message they want to send. Which usually involves money somewhere.
> I'm more inclined to believe that this case is getting amplified in MSM because it fits an agenda.
I mean tech in general has been negatively covered in the media since 2015 due to latent agendas of (a) supposed revenue loss due to existence of Google/FB etc and (b) to align neutral moderation stances towards a preferred viewpoint most suitable to the political party in question.
There is a solution, however, anyone hoping to roleplay with models submits an identity verification, an escrow amount, and a recorded statement acknowledging their risky use of the model. However, I assume the market for this is not insignificant, and therefore, companies hope to avoid putting in such requirements. OpenAI has been moving in that direction as seen during the 4o debacle.
Notable features of this case:
- Documented record of a months-long set of conversations between the man and the chatbot
- Seemingly, no previous history of mental illness
- The absolutely crazy things the AI encouraged him to do, including trying to kidnap a robot body for the AI
- Eventually encouraging (or at the very least going along with) his plans to kill himself.
We would need to see the actual chat logs.
Any lawsuit you read, written by the plaintiff's attorneys, will be written with a tabloid level of sensationalism, cherry-picking, and "telling you how to feel". This is going to be a jury trial, so on some level the game is "would you rather settle out of court (where hundreds of thousands are grains of sand on Google's level), or have a jury read our tabloid and decide while you, the faceless megacorporation, try to swim uphill against it."
To an extent, logs like this are incredibly personal - or at least I'd consider them such - so I'd understand if they're not being released publicly for many reasons relating to that.
The kind of vulnerability that shows when someone is susceptible to influences like this isn't exactly the kind of thing you'd want to widely publicize about someone you loved, you know?
Google will not release the chat logs publically, it's up to the court how to handle them, but the bar for "the public cannot see this" is generally much higher than "well that's embarrassing". If this goes to trial, they will most likely become available.
Remember that the idea of the court is to be public and transparent, with judgement coming from the jury, but also to be judged by society on the whole. So if you're gonna sue your kink provider, be prepared for everyone to know how you get off, because after all, the court is owned by, and serves, the public.
Yeah this seems as clear cut a case as you could want. That doesn't automatically mean Google is going to get held liable but if any case would result in it this one will.
Charles Manson never actually killed anyone. Why can't AI be held accountable for the same reasons?
I think it’s already time for us to stop calling these things "intelligent" or using the word intelligence when referring to LLMs. These tools are very dangerous for people who are mentally fragile.
I try to avoid calling LLMs intelligent when unnecessary, but it runs into the fundamental problem that they are intelligent by any common-sense definition of the term. The only way to defend the thesis that they aren't is to retreat to esoteric post-2022 definitions of intelligence, which take into account this new phenomenon of a machine that can engage in medium-quality discussions on any topic under the sun but can't count reliably.
I don't have a WSJ subscription, but other coverage of this story (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/mar/04/gemini-ch...) makes it clear that Gemini's intelligence was precisely the problem in this case; a less intelligent chatbot would not have been able to create the detailed, immersive narrative the victim got trapped in.
It's interesting how the Turing Test was pretty widely accepted as a way to evaluate machine intelligence, and then quietly abandoned pretty much instantly once machines were able to pass it. I don't even necessarily think that was incorrect, but it's interesting how rapidly views changed.
Dijkstra said, "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim." Well, we have some very fish-y submarines these days. But the point still holds. Rather than worry about whether these things qualify as "intelligent," look at their actual capabilities. That's what matters.
Basically the only reasonably proposed Turing test is the one defined in the Kurzweil-Kapor wager[0] which has never been attempted.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test#Kurzweil%E2%80%93K...
We will never prove AI is intelligent.
We will only prove humans aren't.
As far as I know, we haven't done any proper Turing Tests for LLMs. And if we did, they would surely fail them.
"Proper" may be doing some work here, but such a test was run last year and GPT-4.5 and LLaMa-3.1-405B both passed. Oddly, GPT-4.5 was judged as human significantly more often than chance. https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.23674
Dude, you're in a Turing test right now. Conservatively, 10% of comments on this site are LLM output. We're all conversing with robots.
Nope, you are!
So are a lot of humans.
People have bowel movements, too; should we be building a machine that produces fecal matter at an industrial scale?
What a silly comparison.
Sure but my father isn't asking his fellow humans unanswerable questions about God and the universe. People don't treat other people as omnipotent, but they sure as hell treat LLMs as though they are.
>People don't treat other people as omnipotent
Funny you mention God and this statement, because believing in any particular God that says they are omnipotent is believing that humans are, since you know humans made this crap up.
Given the opportunity a very large part of the population will quickly absolve themselves of any responsibility and put it on another human/system/made up entity.
So is television. So are books. Vulnerable people shouldn't have unfettered access to things that can lead to dangerous feedback loops and losing their grasp on reality.
People who are vulnerable to this type of thing need caretakers, or to be institutionalized. These aren't just average, every day random people getting taken out by AIs, they have existing, extreme mental illness. They need to have their entire routine curated and managed, preventing them from interacting with things that can result in dangerous outcomes. Anything that can trigger obsessive behaviors, paranoid delusions, etc.
They're not just fragile, they're unable to effectively engage with reality on their own. Sometimes the right medication and behavioral training gets them to a point where they can have limited independence, but often times, they need a lifetime of supervision.
Telenovelas, brand names, celebrities, specific food items, a word - AI is just the latest thing in a world full of phenomena that can utterly consume their reality.
Gavalas seems to have had a psychotic break, was likely susceptible to schizophrenia, or had other conditions, and spiraled out. AI is just a convenient target for lawyers taking advantage of the grieving parents, who want an explanation for what happened that doesn't involve them not recognizing their son's mental breakdown and intervening, or to confront being powerless despite everything they did to intervene.
Sometimes bad things happen. To good people, too.
If he'd used Bic pens to write his plans for mass shootings, should Bic be held responsible? What if he used Microsoft Word to write his suicide note? If he googled things that in context, painted a picture of planning mass murder and suicide, should Google be held accountable for not notifying authorities? Why should the use of AI tools be any different?
Google should not be surveilling users and making judgments about legality or ethicality or morality. They shouldn't be intervening without specific warrants and legal oversight by proper authorities within the constraints of due process.
Google isn't responsible for this guy's death because he spiraled out while using Gemini. We don't want Google, or any other AI platform, to take that responsibility or to engage in the necessary invasive surveillance in order to accomplish that. That's absurd and far more evil than the tragedy of one man dying by suicide and using AI through the process.
You don't want Google or OpenAI making mental health diagnoses, judgments about your state of mind, character, or agency, and initiating actions with legal consequences. You don't want Claude or ChatGPT initiating a 5150, or triggering a welfare check, because they decided something is off about the way you're prompting, and they feel legally obligated to go that far because they want to avoid liability.
I hope this case gets tossed, but also that those parents find some sort of peace, it's a terrible situation all around.
> If he'd used Bic pens to write his plans for mass shootings, should Bic be held responsible?
I think the scale of the assistance is important. If his Bic pen was encouraging him to mass murder people, then Bic should absolutely be held accountable.
> Why should the use of AI tools be any different?
Because none of the tools you mentioned are crazily marketed as intelligent
You have a valid point, but it has nothing to do with what I said, both our arguments can be true at the same time
LLMs are intelligent. Marketing them as such is an accurate descriptor of what they are.
If people are confusing the word intelligence for things like maturity or wisdom, that's not a marketing problem, that's an education and culture problem, and we should be getting people to learn more about what the tools are and how they work. The platforms themselves frequently disclaim reliance on their tools - seek professional guidance, experts, doctors, lawyers, etc. They're not being marketed as substitutes for expert human judgment. In fact, all the AI companies are marketing their platforms as augmentations for humans - insisting you need a human in the loop, to be careful about hallucinations, and so forth.
The implication is that there's some liability for misunderstandings or improper use due to these tools being marketed as intelligent; I'm not sure I see how that could be?
LLMs are NOT intelligent. They are mathematical equations that provide results that would give the sense of intelligence. That is NOT the same thing.
Calling LLMs "intelligent" is not a neutral technical description, because in the end it carries strong anthropomorphic implications that shape how users interpret and trust all these systems.
Remember that decades of research in human computer interaction show that framing and interface design strongly influence user perception.
also disclaimers do little to counteract this effect. Because LLMs simulate linguistic competence without understanding or truth-tracking mechanisms, marketing them as intelligent risks systematically misleading users about their capabilities and limitations.
>because in the end it carries strong anthropomorphic implications
I mean that is typical human ego at play. My dog is intelligent, and there is no system of definitions of intelligent that doesn't overlap humans and dogs. Yet I won't let my dog drive my car.
> These aren't just average, every day random people getting taken out by AIs, they have existing, extreme mental illness.
How do you know that? The concern is precisely that this isn't the case, and LLM roleplay is capable of "hooking" people going through psychologically normal sadness or distress. That's what the family believes happened in this story.
Because you'd see a large number of people getting affected by this. Because this sort of thing is predictable and normal throughout history; it's exactly the type of thing you'd expect to see, knowing the range of mental illnesses people are susceptible to, and how other technology has affected them.
I do see a large number of people getting affected by this. Character.AI reportedly has 20 million MAU with an average usage of 75 minutes per day (https://www.wired.com/story/character-ai-ceo-chatbots-entert...), and does not as far as I can tell have any use case other than boundary-degrading roleplay.
Medical data is reported on a substantial lag in the US, so right now we have no idea of the suicide rate last year, but I would falsifiably predict it's going to be elevated because of stories like those of Mr. Gavalas.
If its sole contribution is to help 20 million people find an outlet for boundary play that is not the more common ‘nonconsensual abuse of other human beings’, then that sounds like a win. Of course I’d prefer those people invest in human kink communities, but I can certainly respect their choices not to. Tech has always in part been about meeting needs that some parts of society find awkward (photocopiers enabled Spirkfic, CU-SeeMe reflectors were designed specifically to support exhib-cruising years before the web got webcam support, etc.) While there’s a slim chance that some might normalize it back into real life, they’re much more likely to be raised with boundary abuse as an everyday-normal by their parents (especially here in the U.S.!) than they are likely to be converted to being an abuser unknowingly by a chatbot.
That is not at all what I meant by "boundary" and it's concerning to me that you'd assume it is.
> That is not at all what I meant by "boundary" and it's concerning to me that you'd assume it is.
Your clarification on what you meant is 404 not found in your reply, and your “concerning” insult of my personal character is not appreciated.
I would gently suggest that the content you consume online has led you to a distorted view of how most people perceive the world. I happen to know what you're talking about, but there's a lot of people out there who will be gravely offended and make quite severe judgements of your personal character if you talk to them about "boundary play" or "kink communities" unprompted.
The boundaries I was referring to are those between "the AI is a product being provided to you" and "the AI is a human-like being Google has matched you with". I'm polite and respectful to AI agents and encourage other people to be, but it's very dangerous to make people start thinking of them as a friend or partner. I'm sure Gemini is perfectly nice to the extent that LLMs can be nice, but you can't be friends with it any more than you can be friends with Alphabet Inc. It's just not the kind of thing to which friendship can validly attach.
Just stuff anyone with mental illness into an institution. That worked out so well last time. Or maybe make healthcare affordable and accessible. That seems like a way more obvious detriment to negative outcomes.
I broadly agree with you, but your views on mental illness are not good.
The core problem is that a not-insignificant number of mentally ill people are absolutely convinced that they are totally fine and sane, and legally you cannot force an adult into treatment.
Blame the victims! If they were better or did the right things instead of the wrong things they wouldn't have been victimized!
I have had conversations where the bot started with a firm opinion but reversed in a prompt or two, always toward my point of view.
So I asked it if the sycophancy is inherent in the design, or if it just comes from the RLHF. It claimed that it's all about the RLHF, and that the sycophancy is a business decision that is a compromise of a variety of forces.
Is that right? It would at least mean that this is technically a solvable problem.
I don’t think it is. The thing that needs to be kept in mind is that at the end of the day the basic building block of the AI systems is a fancy autocomplete. And I’m not saying this to somehow diminish it. It just means that it’s going to produce the statistically most likely continuation to a given source text. So if you keep pressing on with your point of view, it gets more and more likely for the statistically likely conversation to start agreeing with you. Unless there’s something in the context window that makes you obviously wrong.
I just don't think the WSJ could resist putting "Florida man" in the standfirst of TFA.
anyone got a non paywalled/subscription version?
https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/gemini-ai-wrongful-death-lawsuit... is the Gift Article link. This was what I submitted, but the query params got stripped.
Thanks it didn't work with archive.is/org for me either
Any mental illness mixed with delusions is likely going to end badly. Whether they think Gemini is alive, a video game is real life or that Bjork loves them without ever talking to or meeting them. While LLM's are interactive and listening to an album isn't I don't think there is a fix to this outside posting a warning after every prompt "I am not a real person, if you have mental issues please contact your doctor of emergency services." Which I think is about as useful as a sign in a casino next to the cash out counter that says if you have a problem call this number.
I'm more inclined to believe that this case is getting amplified in MSM because it fits an agenda. Like the people who got hurt using black market vapes. Boosting those stories and making it seem like an epidemic supports whatever message they want to send. Which usually involves money somewhere.
> I'm more inclined to believe that this case is getting amplified in MSM because it fits an agenda.
I mean tech in general has been negatively covered in the media since 2015 due to latent agendas of (a) supposed revenue loss due to existence of Google/FB etc and (b) to align neutral moderation stances towards a preferred viewpoint most suitable to the political party in question.
There is a solution, however, anyone hoping to roleplay with models submits an identity verification, an escrow amount, and a recorded statement acknowledging their risky use of the model. However, I assume the market for this is not insignificant, and therefore, companies hope to avoid putting in such requirements. OpenAI has been moving in that direction as seen during the 4o debacle.
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