In the examples, there is discrepancy between the source, the diagram, the pieces diagram, and the 3D test each. As someone who is professionally and personally interested in grammars and textiles, I appreciate the fantasy and the vibe of the project but it does not seem to be a functioning demo of anything coherent.
+1. This is 100% hallucinated. Creds: My first programming language was GRAFIS CAD Fachsprache, a parametric pattern drafting software for garments, which incidentally powers our business (https:/liepelt.design—the website and intranet of which we are developing in ur/web btw just to clarify the geek factor!)
Tech person - there's only one contributor, it's less than 48 hours old, and appears to be primarily vibe coded with the assistance of Claude Code. No mentions of types of stitches even though it's crucial to understanding how a garment is made. I wonder too if this grammar can represent a glove made from a single strand of yarn.
It's nowhere near Marvelous Designer. Marvelous Designer is for making 3D clothing for games, animation, and such. It's a limited version of Clo[1] , which is for making real-world clothing. Clo lets you design clothing, put it on an avatar, and watch it move and drape with clothing physics. It looks real. When you see good clothing in a game, it was probably created with Marvelous Designer.
Then Clo exports a file for fabric cutting compliant with the ASTM D6673-10 standard, Standard Practice for Sewn Pattern Data Interchange, which is used for the production of garment patterns. It's kind of clunky, being based on Autodesk DXF, AutoCAD's export format from the 1980s, but it's what the industry uses. You can bring such files into anything that reads DXF and view them. So a widely used formal descriptive language for fabric cutting already exists. You can send those files to a contract garment manufacturer and get garments back.
Marvelous Designer is just Clo minus the cutting pattern export feature.
Stitches are load-bearing, so specifying a bartack or a flatlock seems pretty important to unambiguously specifying a garment. Along the same lines, I don't see a way to specify hardware that isn't for closures, e.g. the rivets used to reinforce denim pockets.
I know, I make clothes too. Probably unlike the creator of this thing.
But the comment I was responding to seemed to be using "stitch" in the way knitters use it, not the way sewists use it. No pattern drafting system can represent the stitches necessary to create a panel of knit fabric, that's simply not the level of abstraction they work at.
This thing isn't good but not for the reason of being unable to represent a one-strand mitten or whatever, which is what I think they were getting at.
Well, I actually had two interrelated thoughts and because of proximity I think I confused things. I guess what I was thinking was "garments are constructed not of "panels" but of threads of a given material which can be abstractly thought of as being panels when woven or knitted, but ..." and from there I thought of failure modes, like the fact that this doesn't have a way of specifying straight vs zigzag stitches, which doesn't have a way of specifying things that are not joined together via stitching panels together, etc. Like, I don't think this can specify a pair of jeans, because the hem of a jean requires a chain stitch at the bottom, which isn't unambiguously defined. This project feels like it devalues the complexity of something that is one of the defining features of civilization.
Does GNL support pleats, tucks, and darts? These sewn features help make flat cloth conform to curves in the body. The terms don't seem to be mentioned explicitly in the repo, though maybe they can be implemented with the existing notation.
Is there a service I can upload a file and get one made and shipped to me? Not necessarily this grament language but others. I have an old and unusual garment I want in an adult size.
Yes, but it's a service for the garment trade, not individuals.[1]
They're going to want patterns in an industry standard format. If you need help with the design, that's available, but not cheap.
There's a reverse-engineering process for garments, involving laying them out on a light table and taking pictures. That's how you make knockoffs.
If the goal is a one-off, not volume production, just find a good custom tailor or costumer. It's going to cost.
This looks interesting but I’m struggling to find any examples of what this actually entails/produces/looks like. Most of the guides are about setting up your environment, checking out code, etc.
So I've actually built patterns using their system. Basically you define a layout using JS and defining a series of points and offsets and lines. You can refer to variables such as body measurements or other dimensions for bags. https://freesewing.eu/ is their more "consumer" facing site where you can enter your measurements and then download sewing patterns sized for you specifically.
One of the other nice things they do as part of the pattern design process is testing the pattern makes sense at many "scales" and so you can actually define a "body" the size of a doll and use this for defining dolls clothing, or make really size inclusive clothing, there are members of the community with varying disabilities such as forms of dwarfism who otherwise struggle to find appropriately sized clothes.
"Dance has Labanotation. Music has staff notation. Architecture has plan/section/elevation conventions. GNL brings the same rigor to garments — a generative descriptive language where a valid expression is sufficient to construct a garment without ambiguity."
The 3D view works on Edge, but the shirt doesn't fit properly and there's only one sleeve and that sleeve doesn't actually have the arm go in the middle of it.
It looks like it has a 3d draping view, but it didn't seem very good yet. Check out Marvellous Designer, that's what anyone doing digital-first uses.
Drapey clothing is probably the easiest to freehand without a pattern though. It's accurate fits that need more measuring, planning, temporary stitching, test garments, etc.
In the examples, there is discrepancy between the source, the diagram, the pieces diagram, and the 3D test each. As someone who is professionally and personally interested in grammars and textiles, I appreciate the fantasy and the vibe of the project but it does not seem to be a functioning demo of anything coherent.
+1. This is 100% hallucinated. Creds: My first programming language was GRAFIS CAD Fachsprache, a parametric pattern drafting software for garments, which incidentally powers our business (https:/liepelt.design—the website and intranet of which we are developing in ur/web btw just to clarify the geek factor!)
Were any people who work for the garment industry involved in GNL's creation, or is it something that's coming entirely from tech people?
Tech person - there's only one contributor, it's less than 48 hours old, and appears to be primarily vibe coded with the assistance of Claude Code. No mentions of types of stitches even though it's crucial to understanding how a garment is made. I wonder too if this grammar can represent a glove made from a single strand of yarn.
If I understand what you mean, that's more in the realm of knitting which does already have several rigorous notations in common use.
This is for pattern drafting, which assumes knit or woven fabric as the raw material for the garment construction, along with the pattern.
That said it still does not seem suitable for this task based on my experience sewing from and modifying patterns.
It looks like it's missing so much that you'd need even to hand-sew a pattern at home. There's no mention of interfaces or bindings.
This looks more like something for making clothing as digital content - e.g. Marvellous Designer. Possibly more straightforward even.
Edit: found interfacing. It calls it "interlining".
It's nowhere near Marvelous Designer. Marvelous Designer is for making 3D clothing for games, animation, and such. It's a limited version of Clo[1] , which is for making real-world clothing. Clo lets you design clothing, put it on an avatar, and watch it move and drape with clothing physics. It looks real. When you see good clothing in a game, it was probably created with Marvelous Designer.
Then Clo exports a file for fabric cutting compliant with the ASTM D6673-10 standard, Standard Practice for Sewn Pattern Data Interchange, which is used for the production of garment patterns. It's kind of clunky, being based on Autodesk DXF, AutoCAD's export format from the 1980s, but it's what the industry uses. You can bring such files into anything that reads DXF and view them. So a widely used formal descriptive language for fabric cutting already exists. You can send those files to a contract garment manufacturer and get garments back.
Marvelous Designer is just Clo minus the cutting pattern export feature.
[1] https://www.clo3d.com/en/
[2] https://www.normsplash.com/Samples/ASTM/191361149/ASTM-D6673...
Stitches are load-bearing, so specifying a bartack or a flatlock seems pretty important to unambiguously specifying a garment. Along the same lines, I don't see a way to specify hardware that isn't for closures, e.g. the rivets used to reinforce denim pockets.
I know, I make clothes too. Probably unlike the creator of this thing.
But the comment I was responding to seemed to be using "stitch" in the way knitters use it, not the way sewists use it. No pattern drafting system can represent the stitches necessary to create a panel of knit fabric, that's simply not the level of abstraction they work at.
This thing isn't good but not for the reason of being unable to represent a one-strand mitten or whatever, which is what I think they were getting at.
Well, I actually had two interrelated thoughts and because of proximity I think I confused things. I guess what I was thinking was "garments are constructed not of "panels" but of threads of a given material which can be abstractly thought of as being panels when woven or knitted, but ..." and from there I thought of failure modes, like the fact that this doesn't have a way of specifying straight vs zigzag stitches, which doesn't have a way of specifying things that are not joined together via stitching panels together, etc. Like, I don't think this can specify a pair of jeans, because the hem of a jean requires a chain stitch at the bottom, which isn't unambiguously defined. This project feels like it devalues the complexity of something that is one of the defining features of civilization.
Is this even able to specify patterns? Or is it just how to assemble the pieces of cut cloth?
It's Claude Code slop
Does GNL support pleats, tucks, and darts? These sewn features help make flat cloth conform to curves in the body. The terms don't seem to be mentioned explicitly in the repo, though maybe they can be implemented with the existing notation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleat | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuck_(sewing) | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dart_(sewing)
Read the docs
eg. Darts: https://github.com/khalildh/garment-notation/blob/main/garme...
Github doesn't do plurality folding which trips up my searches sometimes. Thanks.
Is there a service I can upload a file and get one made and shipped to me? Not necessarily this grament language but others. I have an old and unusual garment I want in an adult size.
Yes, but it's a service for the garment trade, not individuals.[1] They're going to want patterns in an industry standard format. If you need help with the design, that's available, but not cheap.
There's a reverse-engineering process for garments, involving laying them out on a light table and taking pictures. That's how you make knockoffs.
If the goal is a one-off, not volume production, just find a good custom tailor or costumer. It's going to cost.
[1] https://www.hongyuapparel.com/clothing-prototype-manufacture...
This is how a robot thinks of clothing.
And humans.
For another "clothing patterns as code" approach, see https://freesewing.dev/ - also with a more complete UI and editor.
Also free as in freedom [0].
[0] https://codeberg.org/freesewing/freesewing/src/branch/develo...
This looks interesting but I’m struggling to find any examples of what this actually entails/produces/looks like. Most of the guides are about setting up your environment, checking out code, etc.
So I've actually built patterns using their system. Basically you define a layout using JS and defining a series of points and offsets and lines. You can refer to variables such as body measurements or other dimensions for bags. https://freesewing.eu/ is their more "consumer" facing site where you can enter your measurements and then download sewing patterns sized for you specifically.
One of the other nice things they do as part of the pattern design process is testing the pattern makes sense at many "scales" and so you can actually define a "body" the size of a doll and use this for defining dolls clothing, or make really size inclusive clothing, there are members of the community with varying disabilities such as forms of dwarfism who otherwise struggle to find appropriately sized clothes.
"Dance has Labanotation. Music has staff notation. Architecture has plan/section/elevation conventions. GNL brings the same rigor to garments — a generative descriptive language where a valid expression is sufficient to construct a garment without ambiguity."
AI lmao
I should just read Wittgenstein.
We already have marvelous designer and Clo3d...
The 3D view is broken on Safari and Chrome.
The 3D view works on Edge, but the shirt doesn't fit properly and there's only one sleeve and that sleeve doesn't actually have the arm go in the middle of it.
It is not working on Firefox 147.0.4 either.
This is just slop. Pretty sure this person has no experience in clothes manufacturing.
Thank you for this
Can we express the drapes and dresses worn in the animes. Because then it will be helpful for the cos players
It looks like it has a 3d draping view, but it didn't seem very good yet. Check out Marvellous Designer, that's what anyone doing digital-first uses.
Drapey clothing is probably the easiest to freehand without a pattern though. It's accurate fits that need more measuring, planning, temporary stitching, test garments, etc.