156 comments

  • woopwoop 10 hours ago ago

    Last time I flew Delta they no longer had this bot, which made me sad. One of my favorite parts of flying was getting absolutely crushed into a tiny cube by the airplane seat's easy chess bot, and then again by the airplane seat itself when the person in front of me reclines their seat.

    • mrandish 8 hours ago ago

      > then again by the airplane seat itself when the person in front of me reclines their seat.

      This reminds me of the time I had my laptop open on the tilt-down tray and the very large man in the seat in front just repositioned his girth (not even reclining the seat) but it flexed the seat back enough that my laptop screen was momentarily caught between the tray below and recessed lip above and was almost crushed.

      • kimixa 3 hours ago ago

        That happened to me when I had an ipad in a standing case and the seat in front cranked back - trapping then pinging the tablet across me and by neighbour's lap.

        Though the ipad itself wasn't damaged, a couple of glasses didn't make it, and required the steward to try to brush up whatever fragments of glass they could.

        I feel that airlines are a microcosm of "Do you care about who you actions might affect?" - similar to the "Do you return the cart to the corral" test at supermarkets - are you willing to put even the smallest bit of effort to significantly improve other people's experiences?

        • spydr 17 minutes ago ago

          > do you care about who your actions might affect

          This one surprises me every time I fly. When I have the aisle seat I can be up and out in 10 seconds. It seems to make like everyone else will plop down , place down 3 different liquids on the tray and then take a nap. When I ask to use the bathroom I end up feeling like a nuisance

        • VTimofeenko an hour ago ago

          And if you are the airline the answer is a resounding "no"

          • nebula8804 an hour ago ago

            The airline is not a human being. It is an imaginary construct.

      • sejje 7 hours ago ago

        Gorilla glass vs gorilla

        • reincarnate0x14 3 hours ago ago

          (I get the joke) Not even gorillas even, the seats on most US carriers are too small and narrow for a lot of adult men even if they're in good shape. I had to sit shoulder to shoulder with one poor guy an entire flight to New Zealand because both of our shoulder widths are wider than the seats and I wanted to make sure my girlfriend had room enough to sleep. We were both good sports about it and were joking about needing a smoke afterwards, but it was not fun unless he wanted to lean halfway out into the aisle. I'm taller than average but not a giant.

          • mabster an hour ago ago

            I flew Scoot airlines recently and my 13” MacBook Air was too big to have on my lap even though the seat in front was not reclined.

            There's also something about those seats where you get back pain when you try to sleep with your own seat reclined.

      • bink 7 hours ago ago

        I swear this happens to me almost every time I fly.

      • jack_pp 7 hours ago ago

        now you know to check who's sitting in front of you. rookie mistake

      • neal_jones 7 hours ago ago

        Opened a laptop on my last flight and this was my immediate and persistent fear

    • crystal_revenge 4 hours ago ago

      > when the person in front of me reclines their seat.

      As a reasonably tall person I have never reclined my seat and will forever consider anyone who does an asshole.

      The very fact that you can but don’t do something is the precise space where assholeness is defined.

      • hackingonempty 28 minutes ago ago

        If you don't fit in the smallest seat then buy a bigger seat. Someone using the space they paid for is not being an asshole.

      • mjrbrennan 3 hours ago ago

        This is fair on shorter flights ~1-4 hours, but I am reasonably tall too and I am not suffering through a 14 hour overnight flight without reclining. I don't think there is anything wrong with it in this case, and flight attendants will force people to de-recline their chair in meal times etc.

      • OlympusMonds 4 hours ago ago

        Surely you should blame the airlines, rather than the individuals. They cram more people on, giving you less space - but charge the same - and you get mad at other customers, rather than them for cramming you in.

        • crystal_revenge 3 hours ago ago

          I pointed out exactly the opposite: surely moral action is only possible when one has agency.

          If an airline needs to force you to be a decent person, then you have no right to claim decency in the first place.

          People who lean their seats back are assholes. Claiming “but this is permitted!” proves my point.

          I can’t imagine what a nightmare world it would be if decency were only possible through the exercise of external authority.

          • grayfaced an hour ago ago

            And yet I'd prefer the person in front of me lean back and I lean back as well. The upright posture is painful for me. Is your preference more valid then mine? The fact that the chairs are configured that way suggests the cultural norm.

      • tayo42 3 minutes ago ago

        I have never come across this opinion until it seemed to have blown up on the internet in the last few years.

      • arjvik 4 hours ago ago

        I personally believe that the ideal situation is in fact everyone reclining their seat

        • kstrauser 3 hours ago ago

          I'm about 6' tall, even. In some cattlejets, my knees physically touch the seat in front of me. A lady on a recent flight flung her seat back and I cried out involuntarily in sudden pain.

          I understand why she wanted to lean back. And yet, when she did, it freaking hurt. I'm around the 80th percentile in height in the US, and while my doctor says I could lose a few pounds, I wear a men's large shirt so I'm not exactly enormous. Even though they seat can technically recline, you cannot convince me that they're actually meant to.

        • bschwindHN 3 hours ago ago

          My ideal airline would be one where you show up to the airport with your luggage, check it in, and then they knock you out and load you on the plane.

          You get woken up at your destination after they've taken you off the plane. It would be the closest thing you can get to teleportation.

          Then the airline wouldn't have to fuss with preparing shitty food and coffee or deal with annoying passengers. A win for everyone!

        • mjevans 4 hours ago ago

          Can I have the 5th element padded roller beds that are disinfected between every use?

        • jen20 3 hours ago ago

          Not every seat reclines: the one in front of the exit row is a key example.

    • kazinator 6 hours ago ago

      Some low cost airlines no longer have anything. A small fold-out tray to hold your tablet. There is Wi-Fi to access an intranet with flight information and maybe some entertainment. If you have that, you just load it up with games from your play store.

      • reincarnate0x14 3 hours ago ago

        I prefer the Airbus 31x and 32x models without the entertainment systems so much more. On United the Boeing had fucking ads playing NON STOP THE ENTIRE FLIGHT and because I boarded early I'd try to turn off as many around me as possible because somehow the flying public does not mind bright flashing annoying lights in their faces for HOURS.

        • JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago ago

          > because somehow the flying public does not mind bright flashing annoying lights in their faces for HOURS

          We do. United has just positioned their economy products a hair below Delta by, in part, pulling off crap like this.

        • jquery 2 hours ago ago

          This is a United thing, not a Boeing/Airbus thing.

      • kaonwarb 4 hours ago ago

        This is increasingly common in domestic US full-price airlines. It makes sense, in a way - most folks have their own devices, and the airlines save money and weight and don't have to worry about future tech obsolescence - but still makes me a bit sad.

        • kazinator 2 hours ago ago

          Right? That's why I don't want a car with any system for entertainment, beyond generics like speakers. The car is ideally going to last 25+ years, by which time that shit will be obsolete. The software won't be upgradable, etc.

        • QuiEgo 3 hours ago ago

          I've long enjoyed both Alaska's and Southwest's version of this.

        • jen20 3 hours ago ago

          The thing I really wish domestic airlines would take away is reclining seats in economy. Nothing good comes from having them.

          • silisili 3 hours ago ago

            Same. I most recently flew Frontier and despite looking really spartan, it was actually super comfortable. And no reclining to fret over the whole flight.

          • 15155 3 hours ago ago

            Most budget carriers are going this way.

    • johnyzee 9 hours ago ago

      The only winning move is not to play.

      • lapetitejort 9 hours ago ago

        How about a nice trip on a train?

        • shermantanktop 9 hours ago ago

          Depends. How’s the Amtrak chess bot?

          • bink 7 hours ago ago

            Underfunded and constantly side-tracked by cargo bots.

          • runarberg 5 hours ago ago

            I think the Amtrak way is to bring a physical chess board and challenge human strangers over a nice cup of coffee in the observation car.

            • shermantanktop 5 hours ago ago

              The Puget Sound ferries often have a partially-done jigsaw puzzle on one of the tables. You can't finish it in 30m, so people come and do their part and move on. Eventually someone will put in the last piece, I guess, I've never seen it happen.

              • rmunn 3 hours ago ago

                My last visit to Seattle was in 1998 so I can't confirm this firsthand, but I would bet that when someone finishes the jigsaw, ferry staff bring out a new one.

        • dyauspitr 8 hours ago ago

          I don’t have 5 days to travel across the country.

          • farialima 8 hours ago ago

            - it’s 3 days not 5 (e.g leaving NYC Wednesday morning arriving SF Saturday evening)

            - the internet connection is excellent (even in most tunnels) so you can work, have video meetings, etc, not to mention play chess online

            • squeaky-clean 7 hours ago ago

              That's 4 days traveling. Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday. Arriving in the evening doesn't mean you didn't spend that day traveling.

            • tdeck 5 hours ago ago

              I did this once from Seattle. It was a good experience, but the internet connection was nonexistent along large parts of the route.

              Also one way cost like $1,200.

            • amypetrik214 6 hours ago ago

              - the internet connection is excellent

              I mean, maybe you had a different experience. In my experience in the northeast , the internet service is about as reliable and consistent as the trains themselves (ie not consistent, garbage fire)

            • esseph 6 hours ago ago

              If you're not traveling between those specific destinations it can take far, far longer. Amtrak is a joke.

              • reincarnate0x14 3 hours ago ago

                Amtrak is decent on very specific routes and still an absolute joke to anyone who has used trains in Europe, Japan, Taiwan, etc, and no personal experience but I'd imagine China too. My friend takes the Amtrak route up and down the Pacific coast precisely because she's stuck on a train for days and can't be disturbed while doing boring paperwork as an anti-procrastination strategy. Although the observation cars do have great views.

            • dyauspitr 8 hours ago ago

              Let’s be realistic. I love long distance train journeys, but mainly for recreation. Being on a train for 3-5 days is pretty exhausting no matter how comfortable. I’ve done the 30 day Amtrak pass before and it was fantastic but I wouldn’t be looking forward to that if it was a work trip where I want to fly in and then get back to my family as fast as possible. There’s no way that can compare to a 5-6 hour flight+2 hours at the airport.

            • CursedSilicon 7 hours ago ago

              I was rather disappointed by the internet connection on the Cascades line (going Seattle --> Portland and back). As far as I could tell, they use T-Mobile for backhaul. Who are headquartered in Seattle. Yet the connection barely seemed to work for about half of the journey

              • grogenaut 4 hours ago ago

                boo, it's in the middle of no where along part of the route. Tmobile coverage is mainly in urban areas and along free ways no matter what slingblade tells you on the tv commercial. I don't know if you'd get any coverage on parts of that route other than wired.

                Just like how sometimes when you're flying over the rockies or into canada you just don't get internets. There's still middles of no where out there. Often not very far from the freeway.

                • CursedSilicon 3 hours ago ago

                  Even tooling through places like Olympia it seemed to fizzle out

          • dostick 7 hours ago ago

            Why not trei a holiday in Sweden this yër? See the loveli lakes.

          • mattnewton 8 hours ago ago

            This wouldn’t bother me as much but it’s really like 5-7 days depending on freight use of the lines and they can’t tell you ahead of time what it’s going to be somehow?

          • DANmode 5 hours ago ago

            Can’t bring your work with you?

            That sucks.

    • adityaathalye 2 hours ago ago

      > getting absolutely crushed into a tiny cube by ... the airplane seat itself

      Perhaps this is the real reason why they call themselves "Delta".

    • sudokatsu 3 hours ago ago

      You have 30 minutes to move your cube

    • nimski 10 hours ago ago

      bravo

  • nomilk 6 hours ago ago

    There's a bug in the Delta Air Lines chess program. After cxd6 en passant, the captured pawn isn't removed [0]. White's bishop is then able to check the black king through the pawn (the pawn that should have been removed) [1].

    [0] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nyov4F7eWbT8uNoeclPY8uXVG6f...

    [1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eEPBHqE5rpefE9gWflgS_hUwYGS...

    • teraflop 6 hours ago ago

      I guess it's just a display bug, then? Though it's hard to imagine what kind of bug would lead the game state and the visual representation to get out of sync in that particular way.

  • AnotherGoodName 10 hours ago ago

    I wonder if they gave the chess bot X seconds of thinking time in an era when computers were slower?

    The way you set difficulty for turn based game ai is that you limit how far ahead the algorithm searches. If you set the lookahead based on compute time your difficulties will be way out of line if someone upgrades the CPU.

    • Telemakhos 10 hours ago ago

      Something similar happened to the macOS chess game, which has always been bundled with OSX/macOS. Once upon a time it was easy to beat in easy mode, which restricted how long it could thing in advance.

      When Big Sur rolled out around 2020, Apple introduced a bug which disabled the difficulty slider: no matter what it was set to, it was hard or impossible to beat. In macOS Sequoia, the Chess app got updated again, and supposedly they fixed the difficulty slider, but in the interval silicon improved so much that the old restraints (like think for only a second) mean little. The lowest levels play like a grand master.

      • mh2266 8 hours ago ago

        is there some reason to implement it as a time limit instead of iterations or something else deterministic? it being affected by CPU speed or machine load seems obvious.

        or whatever makes sense if “iterations” isn’t a thing, I know nothing about chess algorithms

        • twoodfin 8 hours ago ago

          It’s simpler. Chess is a search through the space of possible moves, looking for a move that’s estimated to be better than the best move you’ve seen so far.

          The search is by depth of further moves, and “better” is a function of heuristics (explicit or learned) on the resulting board positions, because most of the time you can’t be sure a move will inevitably result in a win or a loss.

          So any particular move evaluation might take more or less time before the algorithm gives up on it—or chooses it as the new winner. To throw a consistent amount of compute at each move, the simple thing to do is give the engine consistent amounts of time per move.

          • TheDong 4 hours ago ago

            > To throw a consistent amount of compute at each move, the simple thing to do is give the engine consistent amounts of time per move.

            The simple thing to do is give it a limit on the total number of states it can explore in its search.

            If your goal is consistency, wall-clock time makes no sense. If I run 'make -j20', should the chess computer become vastly easier because the CPU is being used to compile, not search? Should 'nice -n 20 <chess app pid>' make the chess computer worse?

            Should my computer thermal-throttling because it's a hot day make the chess computer worse, so chess is harder in winter?

            If the goal is consistency, then wall-clock isn't the simple way to do it.

            • shadowpho 4 hours ago ago

              >If the goal is consistency, then wall-clock isn't the simple way to do it.

              It’s simpler than doing a limit on number of states, and for some applications consistency isn’t super important.

              Doing a time limit also enforces bot moving in a reasonable time. It puts a nice limit to set up a compromise between speed and difficulty.

              Doing state limit with a time limit might be better way to do it, but is harder.

        • microtherion 6 hours ago ago

          A time limit is also deterministic in some sense. Level settings used to be mainly time based, because computers at lower settings were no serious competition to decent players, but you don't necessarily want to wait for 30 seconds each move, so there were more casual and more serious levels.

          Limiting the search depth is much more deterministic. At lower levels, it has hilarious results, and is pretty good at emulating beginning players (who know the rules, but have a limited skill of calculating moves ahead).

          One problem with fixed search depth is that I think most good engines prefer to use dynamic search depth (where they sense that some positions need to be searched a bit deeper to reach a quiescent point), so they will be handicapped with a fix depth.

      • microtherion 6 hours ago ago

        Heh, I was just discussing this some minutes ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46595777

    • Disparallel 4 hours ago ago

      Getting more thinking time tends to give surprisingly small improvements to playing strength. For a classical alpha-beta search based engine, for a given ply (turn) you might have ~20 moves to consider each depth of the search tree. If you're trying to brute force search deeper, a 10x increase in compute time or power doesn't even let you search an extra ply.

      Elo gains for engines tend to come from better evaluation, better pruning, and better search heuristics. That's not to say that longer search time or a stronger CPU doesn't help, it just doesn't magically make a weak engine into a strong engine.

      • gridspy 3 hours ago ago

        There is a strategy called alpha beta pruning meaning you can discard a lot of move options quickly based on the results of similar branches. That and caching similar board states means 20x options does not mean 20x CPU time.

    • Nition 7 hours ago ago

      Alternatively, since there's only one difficulty provided ("easy"), I wondered if the programmer have selected say, DifficultyLevels array index 0 meaning the easiest, but it was actually sorted hardest first.

    • gowld 9 hours ago ago
      • Sohcahtoa82 6 hours ago ago

        Naming it the "Turbo" button rather than making "turbo mode" the default and then pressing a button for "slow" mode, IMO, was marketing genius, even though the results are the same.

        Blizzard did a similar thing in World of Warcraft during the beta. After playing for a while, your character would get "exhausted" and start earning half experience for killing mobs. The only way to stop being exhausted would be to log off or spend a LONG time in an inn. At some point, they flipped the script. They made the "exhausted" state the default, and while offline or in an inn, you would gain a "rested" experience buffer, where you would earn double experience.

        The mechanic worked exactly the same, but by giving it different terms, players felt rewarded for stepping away from the game occasionally, rather than punished for playing too long. They also marketed it as a way of giving players a way to "catch up" after spending a day or two offline.

  • markgall 10 hours ago ago

    Is this really true? I played a few games with it in August. It's not very good.

    It's one of those old programs where 95% of the moves are pretty strong. But if you just do nothing and sit back it will occasionally make a random blunder and then you grind it out. I figured it's how they were able to weaken a chess engine back in the day; can't adjust the overall strength, so add random blunders.

    I'm only about 2000 on lichess but I beat it pretty much every time, especially once I realized there is no reason to try anything sharp.

    • strstr 10 hours ago ago

      My suspicion is that the bot was a fairly standard chess bot, but the difficulties were set based on computation time. As airplane computers got better, it turned into a beast.

      As a result, if you tried this on older planes, it might have been “easier”

      • monster_truck 6 hours ago ago

        One of my first paid iOS dev jobs was porting a Go game from iPad to iPhone, don't even think the 4 was out yet. It also used computation time based difficulties. By the time I was done writing it, I knew a few tricks I could eke a win out with on 19x19.

        When the iPhone 5S came out, I tried it on a whim to check the UI scaling etc... the beginner difficulty on a 9x9 board deleted me. It was grabbing something like 64x more samples per go, the lowest difficulty on the 5S (instant responses) never lost a single game vs the highest difficulty 3GS (15 second turns)

        iPhones had a lot of moments like that. Silly bullshit like "what if every pixel was a cell in a collection view" would go from "oh it can barely do 128" to "more responsive than that was, with 2 million" in a few gens.

        • plorkyeran 8 minutes ago ago

          One of the minor weird things about iOS development early on was just how fast the transition was from the simulator being dramatically faster than actual devices to the simulator being slower than devices. When I started out you’d get things working nicely in the simulator and then discover it’s an order of magnitude too slow on a phone. Just a few years later and my phone was faster than my laptop until thermal throttling kicked in.

      • throwaway6977 9 hours ago ago

        Chess on M series Macs has the same issue. Even level 1 is easily 2000+ Elo because of the same thing.

        • microtherion 7 hours ago ago

          Oh, this led me down a rabbit hole…

          I was maintainer of the Chess app from the early 2000s to about 2015. We first noticed in 2004 that level 1 (which was then "Computer thinks for 1 second per move) was getting stronger with each hardware generation (and in fact stronger than myself).

          So we introduced 3 new levels, with the Computer thinking 1, 2, or 3 moves ahead. This solved the problem of the engine getting stronger (though the jump from "3 moves ahead" to "1 second" got worse and worse).

          A few years after I had handed off the project, somebody decided to meddle with the level setting code (I was not privy to that decision). The time based levels were entirely replaced with depth based levels (which eliminates the strength inflation problem, but unfortunately was not accompanied by UI changes). But for some reason, parsing of the depth setting was broken as well, so the engine now always plays at depth 40 (stronger than ever).

          This should be an easy fix, if Apple gets around to make it (Chess was always a side project for the maintainers). I filed feedback report 21609379.

          It seems that somebody else had already discovered this and fixed it in a fork of the open source project: https://github.com/aglee/Chess/commit/dfb16b3f32e5a6633d2119...

        • hinkley 9 hours ago ago

          I found a used copy of Warcraft 3 at the store about ten years after it came out, proudly brought it home, fired it up and didn’t recall the graphics being quite that awful, but the first time I tried to scroll the map sideways it shot to the far end because they didn’t build a timing loop onto the animation and I shut it down, disappointed.

          Unfortunately they never released a remastered version of it. They seem to have made some clone of it called “reforged” whatever the fuck that means.

          • jasonwatkinspdx 9 hours ago ago

            Yeah, Reforged was received very poorly so they basically end of life'd the franchise.

            There is a thriving community with a couple different choices for servers to play on. So I'm sure there's a fix for your mouse speed issue.

            Check Twitch for people streaming it: https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/warcraft-iii

            Grubby, one of the early esports stars, still streams it regularly and hosts his own for fun tournaments with other streamers.

            • SOLAR_FIELDS 7 hours ago ago

              Reforged was received poorly because it was a lazy half assed job that was a blatant cash grab. Not because culturally we have moved on and the game has aged beyond being fun

              You probably knew this, but wanted to make sure others knew that the reason they ended the franchise is not because there was no market, but instead it was pure unadulterated greed that led to that situation. In an alternate reality they would have actually done the remake justice and there would be a lively competitive scene

              • pixelpoet 7 hours ago ago

                Sorry for the aside but,

                > SOLAR_FIELDS

                Panoramic Greetings!

          • cwillu 14 minutes ago ago

            There's an SC2 custom campaign that reimplements the wc3 campaign that is worth a look.

          • bombcar 9 hours ago ago

            There are various hacks and tools for games (especially DOS games, but for W3 there may exist the same) which delayloop various calls to slow things down enough "to work".

            The Dolphin emulator has run into similar things; usually doing things "too fast" just gets you more FPS but sometimes it causes the game to go insane.

            • the_af 5 hours ago ago

              Also, some DOS games were coded so that they ran correctly no matter the speed of the hardware, like Alley Cat :)

          • droptablemain 8 hours ago ago

            This is pretty much the experience of trying to play any game from the '90s on modern hardware. It always requires a bit of tinkering and usually a patch from the modding community. Funniest one I've found is Fallout Tactics. The random encounter frequency is somehow tied to clock speed so you'll basically get hit with random encounters during map travel about once every half second.

            • usefulcat 7 hours ago ago

              I've been enjoying Total Annihilation since 1997. Still works fine on fairly modern hardware with Windows 11. No modifications other than some additional maps that I downloaded decades ago.

              • droptablemain 6 hours ago ago

                Interesting. Assuming it did not use DirectDraw -- that's often a major pain point.

          • barbs an hour ago ago

            Sorry if this is a dumb question but did you patch it to the latest version? I don't know if the in-game updater still works but from memory you could download some sort of patch exe file and update it that way.

          • afandian 7 hours ago ago

            I think it means gcc -O0

          • psunavy03 8 hours ago ago

            The original Wing Commander was like that. Playable on 286s/386s, then Pentiums and beyond showed up and it was unplayable. The game started in the "simulator" to show you the controls, and you'd get blown out of space in about 0.5 seconds.

            • Terr_ 7 hours ago ago

              Oh man, I remember that: on a newer computer, I'd tap the left arrow to turn and the Hornet would do a 360.

              I suppose, technically, that's one way to make the Scimitar feel more responsive...

            • the_af 5 hours ago ago

              The original Wing Commander brings back memories! I remember being amazed by the graphics and the story.

              These days I cannot stand games with cliched storyline and tend to skip the cutscenes, but back then it all seemed so amazing... like a cross between a movie and a game.

              I remember playing it later and running into speed issues too, but usually there was a way to tweak the emulator in order to fix this.

          • the_af 5 hours ago ago

            > they didn’t build a timing loop onto the animation

            Wow.

            1984 (!!!) IBM PC (DOS) port of the game Alley Cat had timings built it. They actually used the system clock if I remember correctly, so it would always run at the correct pace no matter how fast the computer. Last I checked it, decades later, it still ran at the correct speed!

            I guess some lessons don't get passed on?

        • monster_truck 6 hours ago ago

          AFAIK the only reason Chess even ships at all anymore is as a burn utility. They'll set it to AI vs AI at max difficulty to stress the system and make sure the cooling/power management works.

          • microtherion 6 hours ago ago

            Never heard that one (it may indeed be used that way, but if it were the only reason Apple would probably keep it in the Apple internal parts of their OS installs).

            It would also be of limited use, as the engine is purely CPU based; it is single threaded and does not even use SIMD AFAIK, let alone GPU features or the neural engines.

            • monster_truck 4 hours ago ago

              It can't be deleted because it's part of the system tools :)

    • lurk2 7 hours ago ago

      > I'm only about 2000 on lichess

      That puts you in the top 7% of players on the site. I have a hard time believing you could get to that rating without knowing that.

      • jibal 3 hours ago ago

        They aren't talking about the site, they're talking about their strength (as measured by that site) so it can be compared to the numbers in the article.

    • Uehreka 7 hours ago ago

      > I figured it's how they were able to weaken a chess engine back in the day; can't adjust the overall strength, so add random blunders.

      In tom7’s Elo World, he does this (“dilutes” strong Chess AIs with a certain percentage of random moves) to smooth the gradient since otherwise it would be impossible to evaluate his terrible chess bots against something like Stockfish since they’d just lose every time. https://youtu.be/DpXy041BIlA?si=z7g1a_TX_QoPYN9b

      • redox99 2 hours ago ago

        Such a great video.

    • sbrother 9 hours ago ago

      1. Uh, isn't 2000 like extremely fucking good?

      2. I played a chess bot on Delta on easy and it was really bad, felt like random moves. I beat it trivially and I am actually bad at chess, ~1000 on chess.com. I wonder if this one is different?

      • Jach 5 hours ago ago

        This was my experience on a long Delta flight, I don't remember if I picked easy or not but it was laughably bad. I took its lunch money for a game and then turned the screen off. I was mostly irritated by the horrible touch interface, it felt so laggy among other issues. (I don't have a ranking, I barely play these days and usually just in person, but my memory says around 1400 back in the yahoo chess days as a teen but it's probably closer to 1000 now.)

      • bluedino 6 hours ago ago

        I wonder if it's different on different planes? I can easily beat my friend and he won a few games on a flight, I played on a different flight and got crushed for two hours straight. I'm probably 1400-ish

      • NewsaHackO 9 hours ago ago

        Yeah, he just casually said he had an elo that high, as if that doesn't blow 90% of people out of the water.

      • umanwizard 9 hours ago ago

        Note that 2000 on lichess is probably weaker than 2000 on chess.com (or USCF or FIDE)

        • dmuino 9 hours ago ago

          That's true, I'm 2050-2100 lichess, around 1800 on chess.com. Never played a rated tournament but played some rated players who were 1400-1500 rated USCF, and they were roughly my strength, maybe a bit better. Still the Delta bot, easy mode, was much, much better than me.

          • fragmede 7 hours ago ago

            Casually just in the top 2-3 percent of chess players globally world wide humble brag. I'm not that good at it, just a little bit!

            • jmb99 3 hours ago ago

              I mean, if you’re in the top 3 percent of anything, yes that’s pretty good, but not unbelievably so, especially in the field of chess. If for instance you randomly put together a classroom full of chess players, there’s decent odds one of them is better than top 3%. Two classrooms and it’s almost a certainty.

              Put another way, looking at chess.com users, there are ~6 million people who would count as the top 3 percent. Difficult to achieve, yes, but if 6 million people can achieve it, it’s not really a “humble brag,” it’s just a statement.

              • refulgentis 2 hours ago ago

                It made me smile to hear “I’m only 97th percentile” isn’t a humblebrag. You may be employing an old saw of mine, you can make people* react however you want by leaning on either percentages or whole numbers when you shouldn’t.

                * who don’t have strong numeracy and time to think

        • citrus1330 7 hours ago ago

          It's still significantly stronger than the average online chess player

        • mcmoor 4 hours ago ago

          I heard it's never intended to be the same since initial rating for Lichess and chess.com respectively is 1500 and 1200. So they should have 300 rating difference on average. Quite fitting with what the other commenter claims actually.

  • tmathmeyer 10 hours ago ago

    Not only is the delta chessbot bad (My low 1600s lichess-elo self can win handily every single time against any difficulty, white or black), but there's also a sequence of moves I found which deterministically causes the game to crash. I should probably record it next time I'm on a flight.

    • dmuino 9 hours ago ago

      I'm 2100 rapid on lichess, 2050 blitz and bullet. I got destroyed every single time I played the easy mode version on Delta. It knew opening theory. It did not blunder a single time in the middle game. I never made it to an end game.

      • gridspy 3 hours ago ago

        Sounds likely it had an opening book dataset. You just needed a weird opening

    • mvkel 9 hours ago ago

      There's only one difficulty setting

  • conartist6 9 hours ago ago

    There used to be a chess program in windows 3.1 that would destroy me every time. Not that I was very good, of course! But I think if you just code the known opening books it's not too hard to make a bot that requires a skilled player to beat.

  • s3p 10 hours ago ago

    I am so glad this made first page news on HN!!

    Years ago I remember flying with Delta and wondering why the delta bot could beat me in a handful of moves on EASY. Absolutely insane.

  • tromp 8 hours ago ago

    Sometimes the airlines chess app gives you the option to play another passenger, but even after waiting for half an hour I've never been hooked up with another player. Has anyone else been able to?

    • chrisfosterelli 7 hours ago ago

      Yes, as someone who is usually flying with my GF, I love this feature! Unfortunately air canada's implementation is abysmal and anytime there is a pilot announcement it interrupts the game long enough to break the network connection and cause it to end the game.

    • tantalor 8 hours ago ago

      The best part about this is sneaking a look at your opponents screen if you are lucky enough to sit behind them.

      • cheeze 8 hours ago ago

        Does this... help with chess?

        • Nition 7 hours ago ago

          I think that might have been the joke.

        • fragmede 7 hours ago ago

          you can see the possible moves they're thinking of making

          • 4d4m 5 hours ago ago

            Super fun

      • TomatoCo 5 hours ago ago

        Ah, the Zap Brannigan school.

    • nightpool 8 hours ago ago

      It only works with passengers on your same flight. In practice, it's good for kids in the same family or school group who are sitting across the aisle from each other. I've used it for some of their other games

      • billforsternz 4 hours ago ago

        I know I'm getting old when I read comments like this. It wouldn't have occurred to me in a million years that it might pair me with passengers on another flight. I'm conditioned by having first experienced this feature probably 30 years or so ago when pairing to passengers on other flights would have been science fiction.

      • dheera 5 hours ago ago

        Aren't they all hooked up to Wi-Fi now? Why the restriction on same flight?

        • DaSHacka 4 hours ago ago

          That's how the system was originally designed, before in flight WiFi was common. If they're gonna hook it up to the broader internet and allow playing games cross-flight, they might as well just hook it up to an existing service like chess.com and have a significantly larger user base imo

    • acomjean 8 hours ago ago

      one flight I was on had trivia which allowed multiplayer. We ended up with about 10 playing the game. I thought it was a good idea for a networked computer and captive audience.

    • bdamm 8 hours ago ago

      Some day we might fly on the same airplane!

  • JALTU 10 hours ago ago

    On the other hand, the poker apps encourage me to consider a career change. I regularly crush the "opposition" with my card-counting skills. World Series of Poker, I am all-in!!! ;-)

    • stevage 7 hours ago ago

      Card counting in poker?

      • brewdad 7 hours ago ago

        Gotta keep track of how many more cards you get in seven card stud.

    • LtdJorge 7 hours ago ago

      Do you mean Blackjack?

  • muyuu 5 hours ago ago

    I don't think I've played this bot. I guess the few times I flew in America wasn't with Delta as I would definitely try chess if available.

    From what I've seen in the video I'd give the bot around 2100 FIDE equivalent. Granted you don't play bots like you play people. This bot essentially plays top engine moves and every now and then it introduces suboptimal moves. This technique can be played against choosing appropriate openings and being patient with calculation.

  • ccamrobertson 8 hours ago ago

    United sadly removed games from its in-flight entertainment so I can no longer trounce 6 year old Magnus.

  • gip 9 hours ago ago

    I played the bot (probably early 2025) and wasn't that impressed. I won 5-1 or something like it. I did win one or two local chess tournaments in the past but I'm really not an impressive chess player.

  • jfaat 5 hours ago ago

    I see some chess players so I want to plug the chess coaching app [0] I'm building. I don't know many chess players and could use feedback, but I had been paying for chess.com premium and tried some others and it's always game-level feedback which is insane to me because it's really not that helpful (as evidenced by my abysmal rating.)

    I'm running games through stockfish/lc0/Maia and doing some analysis of patterns across multiple games, then feeding that to an agent who can replay through positions and some other fun stuff. Really keen to find out if it's helpful for anyone else!

    [0]https://chessfiend.com

    • taftster 5 hours ago ago

      I'm going to check this out, as it's legitimately attempting to solve the gap in online chess coaches. As said on the home page, I don't want to know what to play, I want to know why I'm not seeing it or how to think about the move differently. This is the gap and I hope you find success. I'm definitely going to check it out.

    • taftster 5 hours ago ago

      But to ask, did you consider "chessfriend" instead of "chessfiend" for branding? "fiend" can carry a negative connotation, which I'm not particularly lining up with in your product.

      • jfaat 5 hours ago ago

        I hadn't considered that name specifically but I'm not married to the branding! I appreciate that feedback and your other comment validating I'm not the only person with this problem. Happy to chat more via email (in bio)

  • specproc 10 hours ago ago

    I used to fly a lot of Turkish, and their one's laughably bad. If anyone here works for Turkish Airlines, get yourself a better Chess bot.

    • tomjakubowski 8 hours ago ago

      Don't be surprised when you learn their so-called "chess bots" are actually people, lying hidden below the floor of the passenger cabin, moving pieces with the help of levers and magnets.

    • Terretta 6 hours ago ago

      Turkish Airlines likes their passengers to feel smart.

  • hk1337 9 hours ago ago

    I had similar experiences playing the computer in Tzar: Burden of the Crown. It’s not chess but it is a strategy game.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzar%3A_The_Burden_of_the_Crow...

  • efitz 7 hours ago ago

    Someday a delta engineer will go fix the UI bug where the labels for the difficulty levels were inverted in order compared to the enums used by the chess engine.

  • shen 9 hours ago ago

    The Air Canada bot is too easy on medium but hard is unplayable because the computer is too slow at making each move.

  • runarberg 5 hours ago ago

    Icelandair’s chess engine was equally brutal (well maybe only slightly less brutal). I played a couple of rounds on medium difficulty only to realize I didn’t stand a chance. I played a few more on beginner, and still lost all my game by blundering some tactics to the engine. Just before landing in Iceland I manage to get one game to the endgame, where the bot finally starts feeling like a beginner (well an advanced beginner) and I got one victory in.

  • lspears 10 hours ago ago

    This is great