Things that aren't doing the thing

(strangestloop.io)

181 points | by downboots 11 hours ago ago

95 comments

  • saulpw 7 hours ago ago

    In the Viable System Model[0], "doing the thing" is System 1. Yes of course you need System 1 or the thing won't get done.

    But in any viable system, you also have the "meta-systems", Systems 2-5:

    - System 2: coordination between multiple Systems 1 (which includes prioritization, communication, and exceptional conditions)

    - System 3: resource allocation and process development

    - System 4: strategy and risk management

    - System 5: values and holistic organizational design

    As a human, you are also striving to be a viable system. You can't only just "do the thing", you have to:

    - prioritize which thing to do

    - take notes and keep records to communicate between past and future versions of yourself

    - make sure you have the requisite resources for doing the thing

    - construct your environment and processes for long-term success (habits not motivation)

    - consider what happens when the thing is done and how it fits into your larger strategy

    - keep your head and heart connected to make sure you're doing the right thing

    None of these things are doing the thing! But they're also rather essential for getting the right things done well.

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viable_system_model

    • chairmansteve 4 minutes ago ago

      Thing is, you have to start doing the thing to figure out what things you need to do the thing.

    • jstummbillig 7 hours ago ago

      Certainly, but don't get confused: You are not doing the thing, until you do the thing.

      There are many ways to do the thing. There are many more ways to not do the thing.

      • kspacewalk2 30 minutes ago ago

        Oh you are absolutely doing the thing in this situation, as in you're in the process of doing it, somewhere between 1% and 99% of the way there depending on the context. You haven't done the thing until you actually fully do the thing, it is true. But most of the work could be in this preparatory meta work, and of course it means nothing without the final all important step of doing the thing, but there you have it, doing the thing before having fully done the thing.

      • saulpw 5 hours ago ago

        That's right, you're not producing paperclips unless one minute you have metal wire and the next minute you have a paperclip.

      • taneq 4 hours ago ago

        Au contraire! Almost all the time you spend doing the thing is actually doing the things required before the final completion of the thing. I've taken to calling this "the work before the work" and it's at least 90% of the work.

        Example: I get asked at the start of a project to provide ModbusTCP comms mapping for a new control panel, so that the client can start integrating it into their SCADA system. It's just a spreadsheet, maybe 100 rows, how hard could it be? They need it right now, why am I telling them it'll take 6 months?

        Typing the addresses and descriptions into the spreadsheet is 'the work', and it only takes an afternoon, but it can't start until we do the work before the work:

        - To document the ModbusTCP mapping I need to the PLC program

        - To finish the PLC program I need the electrical drawings

        - To finish the electrical drawings, the electrical engineer needs the device list, datasheets for all the devices, and the functional spec

        - To finish the device list and functional spec, we need to agree with the client exactly what we're building and what it's meant to do

        None of these things are 'the work' but all of them are 'the work before the work' and usually nobody wants to do, to wait for, or pay for this work.

    • wnc3141 2 hours ago ago

      This would have been neat in business school

      • chairmansteve 3 minutes ago ago

        Business school is a great way to postpone doing the thing...

    • mhdi_kr99 6 hours ago ago

      writing this reply on hackernews is not "doing the thing" bro.

      • saulpw 6 hours ago ago

        You have no idea what my thing is and whether or not I'm doing it via this post on HN.

  • andy99 6 hours ago ago

    I see this as a kind of inspiration / perspiration thing, and I’m on Tesla’s side that you perspire less if you think more. I like to not do the thing for a really long time, and then do it quickly, having thought it through. I see some people that jump into things without thinking, and take what is imo the more difficult route, with worse results.

    I know there are some things you need to start to really understand what’s going on, but as much as possible I’d rather mull over things a lot and gather information and clarify my thinking before doing the thing.

    • macrocosmos 2 hours ago ago

      A: There's the right way, the wrong way, and THEN THE MAX POWER WAY!

      B: Isn't that just the wrong way?

      A: Yes! But faster!

      • roughly an hour ago ago

        Honestly sometimes that's the right way.

  • nrhrjrjrjtntbt 7 hours ago ago

    Right but I see this taken too far. Getting side eyed for creating a Jira ticket not doing it now. Dude, I am creating a Jira ticket because I have 100 things to do and need to actual priorise this! If I do stuff in the order of serendipity I will definitely be inefficient.

    • jimbokun 2 hours ago ago

      It does add up though.

          1. Ticket
          2. Feature branch
          3. Write unit test
          4. Periodically merge from main.
          5. Implement to get tests to pass
          6. Push changes
          7. Create PR
          8. Wait for PR feedback
          9. Address feedback and repeat
          10. Close and merge PR
          11. Automated CI deploy
          12.  Integration testing as needed
          13. Close ticket
          14. Include in next prod release
      
      All of these are good things. But the overhead is significant. And there may be times when you want to do spikes that forgo some of these.
    • arcfour 3 hours ago ago

      I don't think that this is an indictment of creating the Jira ticket, or prioritization, or anything. It reads to me like a reminder that we often focus too heavily on the other work and thoughts that are adjacent to doing something, get lost in the weeds, and don't actually end up doing the thing.

    • fuzzy_biscuit 5 hours ago ago

      If you don't create the ticket, it may never get done, too! That not doing the thing might lead to convincing others the thing needs to be done which directly leads to doing the thing.

      It may not be doing the thing, but it enabled the thing to be able to be done at all. Cheers to the precursors, the planners and the annotators. Through you, more things are done.

    • shadowgovt 5 hours ago ago

      I am creating a jira ticket because I will forget I have done the thing.

      I am also creating a jira ticket because 11 months later when another engineer is trying to figure out if the code they're staring at is still actually valuable or if they can rip it out safely, they are going to use git blame to find the pull request where the thing was done, that pull request is going to mention the jira ticket, and the jira ticket is going to reference the design document that justified why we did the thing. If we don't do those things, that engineer is going to yank that functionality out and something way over there is going to break without anybody realizing it broke.

      Your mileage may vary. Some teams make the PRs detailed enough that they don't have to fall back on jira. Other teams try to encode this information into unit tests (that helps but it's circular reasoning; the unit test will tell you that somebody at one point thought that this was important enough to verify that it keeps doing the thing; they won't tell you why the thing matters or what customer wanted the thing or whether the thing was the thing we did before we pivoted to doing the new thing cuz the old thing didn't make money).

      • AstralStorm 39 minutes ago ago

        It's called documentation. Somehow people forget to include a non-external service dependent version with their code these days.

        Probably because "nobody is paid for doing that".

  • thomascountz 8 hours ago ago

    I'm inspired by this and want to extend it, perhaps telescopically, by discussing what the thing is.

    Sometimes we see our task as being, "do C," and we forget the "B" and "A" that come before.

    Maybe you can't do "C" without discussing it ("B") or researching how others did it ("A"). In these cases, we shouldn't simply think the thing is "C"—the thing must first be "A," then "B," and then, "C."

    If we forget this, we're bound to think "C" is the only thing of value, that it should take an hour and not a week, or that people doing the "A's" or "B's" to enable the "Cs" must be doing nothing at all!

    • acestus5 7 hours ago ago

      You pay a doctor for a consultation. saying you paid the doctor for medical school and for the legacy of doctors that came before him is.... wrong.

      • valiant55 7 hours ago ago

        It's not wrong, that's exactly what I'm paying them for. If they didn't have the education then they wouldn't be a doctor, and I wouldn't be seeing them for a consultation.

        I'm well compensated not because I'm good at googling things, but because I have a proven track record of being good at googling things. If a junior was able to produce the same results they wouldnt be paid more.

        • AstralStorm an hour ago ago

          Who's paying to school them at googling? Certainly not you...

      • thomascountz 7 hours ago ago

        If you pay a doctor, the thing you're doing is paying a doctor. Your "A" or "B" might be booking the appointment or figuring out how to send the payment. I'm not sure I follow.

      • hinkley 7 hours ago ago

        $5 for adjusting the screw. $495 for knowing which screw to adjust.

      • idiotsecant 7 hours ago ago

        If paying for medical school is not what youre doing why not just do your doctors appointment at Burger King?

  • cadamsdotcom 7 hours ago ago

    I wonder what thing the author was avoiding when they published this thing ;)

    • runjake 6 hours ago ago

      IIRC, the author said somewhere that this essay was effectively a “note to self”.

      • swyx 44 minutes ago ago

        did they tweet about doing the thing while not doing the thing?

    • jader201 7 hours ago ago

      Maybe his thing was “write an article about things that aren’t doing the thing”. :)

    • hanslovsky 7 hours ago ago

      yep hev forgot to add "riding this blog post" to the list

  • johnfn 8 hours ago ago

    Marketing is absolutely doing the thing; ignore this to your peril. I don't think reality is quite as binary as this post suggests.

    • bix6 8 hours ago ago

      But that would be doing the thing after you’ve done the thing no?

      • johnfn 7 hours ago ago

        I think you really want to be marketing concurrently with doing the thing. Saving it all for the end is probably a mistake. And a lot of projects don't have defined "end"s, like open source projects, or websites.

      • wavemode 3 hours ago ago

        Movie trailers come out before production is finished. In fact sometimes before production has even meaningfully started.

      • pointlessone 7 hours ago ago

        That depends. If OP’s job is marketing then doing it before is doing the thing even if it pisses off the people who’ll have to do the thing OP made up.

  • rjh29 3 hours ago ago

    Meaningless platitude. All the things mentioned (visualisation, scheduling, breaking into smaller tasks, etc.) are proven to work. If you cannot do a task but you do the above things, you will eventually be able to do the task. You know what isn't proven to work? Willing your brain to "just do it" like this article implies.

    • doitLP 2 hours ago ago

      Agreed. But there’s still a type of Zeno’s paradox if you don’t start and continue and finish the thing. As someone that has no trouble planning or starting but a lot of trouble continuing to the end, I find this kind of stuff helpful to completing what I set out to do.

      As Jobs said “real artists ship.”

  • realitydrift 4 hours ago ago

    Half the struggle is that all the meta actions around doing the thing create a kind of synthetic realness. It feels like progress, but it’s just noise. When the Reality Drift Equation tilts toward excess entropy, your brain mistakes preparation loops for actual work and you end up in identity drift instead of momentum. The only way out is collapsing the loop by acting, not optimizing the wrapper around the action.

    • AstralStorm 41 minutes ago ago

      Yeah sure. The tricky part is if you even know which action to take. To actually do that you need to research enough, conceptualize the end goal and envison a rough but workable plan.

      Most people don't and blindly stumble going after short term to mid term reward. Then later life crashes them hard, except for the lucky few.

      And the truth is, now some people have many more luck coupons to spend than others.

  • dwaltrip 5 hours ago ago

    It doesn't matter how fast you are moving if you are going in the wrong direction.

    Nonetheless, these are good points.

    • wavemode 3 hours ago ago

      Well, if you learn something along the way that teaches you what the right direction is, then you still made progress.

      • AstralStorm an hour ago ago

        Unless you wasted years by going in the wrong direction which could have been avoided by a week of serious thinking and planning... (Or even a year. Some mistakes are extremely costly.)

  • mycall an hour ago ago

    What about reading about the thing which is about reading a thing is then the thing of doing the thing.

  • scuff3d an hour ago ago

    It's amazing how many people utterly missed the point. I think the first 6 or so top comments just totally wiffed it.

    There is nothing wrong with planning/scheduling/marketing/whatever. But a LOT of people use all that as excuses and never actually do the thing.

    If you are the kind of person for whom which those are useful, great. Or if you have the self-displine/self awareness to do all that stuff and still follow through, great. But some people just need to do the fucking thing or they never will.

    Source: I'm one of those people.

  • nagisa 7 hours ago ago

    If you have no idea how to do the thing, isn't reading about how others did the thing doing the thing?

    • rtpg 7 hours ago ago

      This hints at the antithesis to this article

      Doing a thing involves doing it, but it's very unlikely that doing a thing will involve exactly one atomic movement. So you have cutpoints at doing the thing.

      So to do the thing you first have to decide to do the thing. You have to decide what the thing is, or at least have enough of a vision of the thing to take the first step at doing a thing that might look like the thing.

      So "doing the thing" involves a lot of doing things that aren't the thing, but without which you won't get towards the thing.

      In other words: sitting down and writing down what the thing is _can very well_ be part of doing the thing.

      There's a sort of philosophical point too, about whether the thing is what you think it is. Plenty of people have had the "I thought this feature was going to do X, you thought it was going to do Y, and we all realised the mismatch very late in the process".

      I think both visions of the world are valid, and things you can keep in your mind at the same time to deploy as needed.

    • ahazred8ta 7 hours ago ago

      "Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be entreated not to hit the nail at all." -- Nietzsche

    • epolanski 3 hours ago ago

      Or you could try and learn by experience. Software is an example, but so could be drawing or composing music. All of those things have been taken to extreme highs by people who had no idea what they were doing.

      Naivety has its perks.

    • manmal 7 hours ago ago

      No, you’ll still need to do it.

      • nrhrjrjrjtntbt 7 hours ago ago

        Yes just do it without knowing how to do it! That always works out well.

        • jader201 6 hours ago ago

          But learning about, while possibly a prerequisite, still isn’t getting it done.

          The point is: don’t stop at learning how to do the thing.

          Actually do the thing.

          • nrhrjrjrjtntbt 6 hours ago ago

            So skip medical school and grab a scalpel and cut out brain tumours?

            • jader201 6 hours ago ago

              I don’t believe I ever said “don’t learn how to do the thing”.

              But many learn how to do the thing, and still never do it.

    • shawn-butler 6 hours ago ago

      Then it isn't a thing you can do.

      • forgetfulness 6 hours ago ago

        Becoming someone who can do the thing is how you get to do a lot of things

        Not what your boss and your bosses’ boss wants you to do, instead of doing other things you can do to maximize value for shareholders in some arbitrarily chosen amount of time

        But thinking of how you wouldn’t have permission to get ready to do the thing in a business context, also, isn’t doing the thing

  • mjd 8 hours ago ago

    LinkedIn is over there.

    • orblivion 2 hours ago ago

      So obnoxious. More bullshit to make us self-conscious.

  • lutusp 25 minutes ago ago

    Granted the humorous intent, it's a reductionist outlook. If we were to embrace the premise, then life would be about spawning replacements, or, as is sometimes said, "A chicken is an egg's way to make another egg."

    When expressed that way, I must differ. Reproduction per se is the least interesting part of human life. Talking about reproduction is much more interesting ... wait, I think that's called "literature."

  • pizlonator 3 hours ago ago

    To be fair though, for any cool thing I've done, before actually doing the thing, I've also spent time doing the things that TFA says aren't doing the thing.

    Helps me get pumped up or whatever

  • onionisafruit 7 hours ago ago

    Having a meeting about doing the thing isn’t doing the thing

  • 1970-01-01 5 hours ago ago

    I'm trying to do the thing, but the thing is horribly documented and doesn't work. And nobody seems to know why. So am I still doing the thing if the thing isn't doing its thing?

    • utopman 4 hours ago ago

      Then the thing becomes :

      Understand how to do the thing

      Do the thing

      Write down fresh documentation about the thing

      • 1970-01-01 6 minutes ago ago

        >Preparing to do the thing isn't doing the thing.

  • afandian 7 hours ago ago

    One day, when I get enough spare time, I will make the thing. I even have some components ready.

    Until then I daydream of how I will make it and how it will fit together.

    If I never get round to it then that time will have been wasted. But if I do, all that daydreaming will have been useful mental prototyping.

    But was it «doing the thing»?

  • RajT88 5 hours ago ago

    I had this Ah-Ha moment a while back when I was presenting on how to shorten cloud outage times, by aggregating impact into a list of details, and hustling around to make connections to support engineers and their customers and the poor backend engineers running around trying to make sense of it all. Putting a little bit of structure to it, so other people can realize they can make a difference in a large organization.

    I had a colleague make a passive aggressive comment about it being really cool how I put together "obvious" stuff. Well, it is obvious. At the same time, I have never seen him do this "obvious thing".

    Doing the thing is being a performer. Making the thing happen somehow is called leadership. It's all about doing the thing, and not just seeing and understanding the thing - that's the easy part.

  • pac0 7 hours ago ago

    Writing about what things aren't doing the thing is not doing the thing.

    • jkhanlar 4 hours ago ago

      The thing about that kind of writing is that the thing is a uniquely characterizable thing that is distinguishable from other things that are not the thing, thereby enabling the realization of the thing to be a thing, rather than not a thing.

  • seizethecheese 5 hours ago ago

    > Making a to-do list for the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Don’t agree. Planning steps is part of doing the thing.

    • epolanski 3 hours ago ago

      I was thinking the same, but at the end of the day the author has a point and it's not doing the thing.

      • seizethecheese 2 hours ago ago

        Super reductionist, is the moment between clicks on the keyboard also not doing the thing?

  • gentooflux 7 hours ago ago

    Writing a thing about things that aren't doing the thing isn't doing the thing unless the thing happens to be writing a thing about things that aren't doing the thing

    • behnamoh 7 hours ago ago

      Writing a comment about a thing that talks about things that aren't doing the thing isn't doing the thing unless the thing happens to be writing a comment about a thing that talks about things that aren't doing the thing

      • nrhrjrjrjtntbt 7 hours ago ago

        Writing a Python program to write N deep nested sentences on how writing a comment about a comment about a .... (N times) comment is not doing the thing is not doing the thing.

  • tshaddox 6 hours ago ago

    Doing the thing without preparing to do the thing is, depending on your exact definitions, either unwise or impossible.

  • brettgriffin 8 hours ago ago

    This gives very strong War of Art (Pressfield) vibes.

    As simple as it is, just remembering this is enough to make me go do the thing.

    And on that note, back to the thing.

    • Scarblac 6 hours ago ago

      Didn't that roughly end with "dying of cancer isn't doing the thing"?

      I distinctly recall it becoming a bit extreme in the last chapter(s).

  • croisillon 6 hours ago ago

    i'm pretty sure there is a "oh no!" comics (https://webcomicname.com/) saying the same but i couldn't find it

  • Almondsetat 6 hours ago ago

    I am replying to this post without planning whst to actually say

  • the_af 4 hours ago ago

    I must add: discussing (or showing HN) To-Do apps or systems on how best organize yourself to do the thing isn't doing the thing.

  • begueradj 2 hours ago ago

    > Reading about how to do the thing isn't doing the thing. Reading about how other people did the thing isn't doing the thing."

    > Making a to-do list for the thing isn't doing the thing.

    Clearly defining and understanding the thing or, as they say, understanding the problem is half the solution. Real life experiences totally crash the OP statements.

  • andrewflnr 2 hours ago ago

    Y'all saying things like "but you still need prioritization and tracking, bro!" are not the target audience of this post.

  • bix6 8 hours ago ago
  • mcdonje 8 hours ago ago

    -Nike

  • meken 5 hours ago ago

    I see lots of comments focusing on cases where there is necessary research still to do.

    Which I think misses the point - which is there are times when you’ve already done enough research, but you’re afraid to act so you procrastinate. i.e. not doing the thing.

    • AstralStorm 36 minutes ago ago

      If you haven't started doing the thing while researching it, you're doing archeology or historiography, not research. (Different scientific fields. Research requires experiment.)

  • RossBencina 6 hours ago ago
  • alentred 6 hours ago ago

    Here's my take, in no particular order:

    - Ignoring that all people are different does not make you an expert in human psychology

    - Discovering what procrastination is (and still failing to name it or provide actual coping mechanisms) does not make you an expert in human psychology

    - Failing to recognize elementary human behavior does not make you an expert in human psychology

    - Utterly neglecting the act of double creation (first imagine, then create) does not make you an expert in human psychology

    - Being energetic and with only a few tasks at hand and writing off everyone else as lazy does not make you an expert in human psychology

    - Writing a post about human psychology does not make you an expert in human psychology

    I would continue my list, but gotta go. To do... , you know.

    • jkhanlar 4 hours ago ago

      Today I learned that I know what the thing is, not because I know what the thing is, but because I was informed that I know what the thing is, and that to know what the thing is merely requires to be informed that I know by any person willing to allege such possession of knowledge, thereby eliminating any effort on my part to know the thing and appropriating such effort imposed on other persons whom are able and willing to indicate to me that I know the thing.

  • shadowgovt 5 hours ago ago

    All true, but worth noting that sometimes making that to-do list is the first step to doing the thing because picking the first item off the list and taking 10 minutes to do it is doing the thing. If you aren't doing the thing because it's a monolith in your brain that is going to consume the next 6 months of your life and you're paralyzed by its enormity, salami slicing 10 minute chunks off the front of it can be a good way to get started.

  • makeitdouble 7 hours ago ago

    And now we have a whole post about not doing the thing, which is also not doing the thing.

    • the_af 4 hours ago ago

      In order to determine if something is or is not "doing the thing" you must first know what "the thing" is. If it's writing your thoughts on your blog, then this is indeed doing the thing.

      Not doing the thing would be: planning to write a blog post, tweeting that you're going to write a blog post, reading articles about how best to word your blog posts, watching some YouTube videos as inspiration, etc.

      I think the advice here is an anti procrastination advice: do the thing, don't just think about doing the thing.

  • fragmede an hour ago ago

    What's the thing? If we're being shitty about systems neurodivergent people use to get their laundry done, stop. If you're complaining about the overhead it takes to manage a project with 10,000+ people, yeah no. If there are 2 ICs, 4 managers, a TPM, a PM, a other "P" PM, a UX person, an HR person and a lawyer, yeah you might have a point.