To sell food to others, you need to get a "restaurant license". I dont think anyone would argue that people should be able to buy food from whoever. And I dont think that's what "treating people like adults mean".
I use food as an example to illustrate the point. I'm aware that food != app, but the point is when you offer goods/services in a modern society at scale, it is reasonable to verify yourself.
I think people should be able to buy food from whomever. I don't see why not. You can't go over to your friend's house and toss them some cash for a steak or wings or whatever? What, they aren't a professional chef with a license granted to them by a bureaucrat, you could get sick and die!
It's easy for me to judge what software is safe to use and mitigate what risk might exist. It's impossible for me to judge what food is safe to eat and being wrong could kill me.
Come on. There's a reason government regulates food and not apps. Government is at least accountable to us, and at the time food safety regulation norms were established, was trustworthy to act in our interest. Google and Apple never were.
Don't be obtuse. I can tell the difference between yt-dlp with 130,000 stars on github and some AI/crypto shovelware or a Spotify unlocker downloaded from a .ru site.
And the point isn't that it's impossible for me to get it wrong, it's that it should be my choice and my business and I'll accept the responsibility if it's less easy than I thought. The Apple types can have an easy mode where Apple decides what's safe. We can have it both ways.
I've been thinking of trying out the iphone for a while now.
The reason I wasn't switching is that I install a lot of open source apps on my android device, for all kinds of things.
This change seems like it might greatly affect the current developer landscape. I've been looking for alternatives on the iphone to the apps I use and in most cases they do exist. I imagine the same will happen with android. Lots of devs are going to register and so on.
However, at that point, what difference will there be between ios and android systems that will meaningfully make me stay in android? I'll try out the iphone and see how I like it. Maybe theres something thats so commonplace right now for me that will become a deal breaker. Sort of doubt it.
Big L, as always google just doing what they do best.
On iPhones, you need to pay Apple $99/yr+taxes to do even personal development.
Yes, technically they have a free tier, but it supports a max of 3 devices, which you can't change, ever. It's so painful that it might not as well exist.
Is Android doing the same?
Do you have to pay them money to install your own, or open source apps?
That's what it looks like. You pay $25 and give your ID (yay more exposure from data breaches wooooo) and then you become verified. That lets your apps get installed. But if you're just installing on your own devices (with ADB), such as for development, you're fine. I see no upside to this
No. We are rewarding Apple for having well designed hardware and software integration. Something Android (Google) has failed at, but the community has carried in Googles place. Now that Google is turning their backs and slamming the door in the communities face, Android has no real competitive edge over an Apple device.
Those things don't meaningfully differentiate the flagship Apple versus Android phones once you strip away Apple's decayingly deserved darling status. I have zero problems with Android. (This new change aside.) Though it's fair for anyone to have a strong subjective preference for either one.
What differentiates them to me is that Android is still marginally freer, but it's only grudgingly at this point that I choose either.
Right!? Apple has got to be thrilled about this. Android's one philosophically differentiating feature, that you're not bound by The App Store, just gone overnight.
But the Android users are the exact people Apple doesn't want. Just look at how the iOS App Store defenders come out whenever someone suggests that iOS should be more open. The response is, without fail, "just go buy an Android if that's what you want". Meanwhile the success that Apple has with those people has lead Google to realize it's a great idea. What will be the response now? "Just go buy a Linux phone"?
I mean, not overnight, it's 2 years from now and it's been long time coming. Play protect getting in the way, permissions to install apps from other apps (honestly a really good idea and should've been there from the start but the key is I can grant it), etc. The whole thing with getting rid of working apps that aren't updated for the sake of being updated. The writing's been on the wall.
Isnt it going to be the opposite. Everytime EU says app store needs to be opened, there's a lot of HN commenters say how that's a bad idea and how App Stores help keep "malware" away. I'm assuming a lot of those folks would be thrilled to now be on Android.
Unless, ofcourse, they were all fanboys who were just defending their favorite company without any reason.
It wont'. For now. But this is a long game. Google has apparently reduced the amount of contributions to AOSP and it would not be surprising if they went fully closed source in the near future. That would be the end of all roms.
More discussion on source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45428832
The cynic in me believes Google is doing this to exert more control over the Android ecosystem, and has very little to do with security.
I'm also afraid it will make it easier for Google to bend to authoritarian regimes and ban developers whose apps are not government approved.
Think it can't happen? Think different:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/10/apple-bends-to-t...
Didnt Apple get away with lot of App Store scrutiny with their current model. Why else wouldnt other app stores follow the practice?
A desire to treat their customers like adults. Or to feign that desire temporarily to win the market share of those for whom that's important.
To sell food to others, you need to get a "restaurant license". I dont think anyone would argue that people should be able to buy food from whoever. And I dont think that's what "treating people like adults mean".
I use food as an example to illustrate the point. I'm aware that food != app, but the point is when you offer goods/services in a modern society at scale, it is reasonable to verify yourself.
I think people should be able to buy food from whomever. I don't see why not. You can't go over to your friend's house and toss them some cash for a steak or wings or whatever? What, they aren't a professional chef with a license granted to them by a bureaucrat, you could get sick and die!
It's easy for me to judge what software is safe to use and mitigate what risk might exist. It's impossible for me to judge what food is safe to eat and being wrong could kill me.
Come on. There's a reason government regulates food and not apps. Government is at least accountable to us, and at the time food safety regulation norms were established, was trustworthy to act in our interest. Google and Apple never were.
> It's easy for me to judge what software is safe to use
How do you do that? Do you read the source code of the app you're sideloading?
Don't be obtuse. I can tell the difference between yt-dlp with 130,000 stars on github and some AI/crypto shovelware or a Spotify unlocker downloaded from a .ru site.
And the point isn't that it's impossible for me to get it wrong, it's that it should be my choice and my business and I'll accept the responsibility if it's less easy than I thought. The Apple types can have an easy mode where Apple decides what's safe. We can have it both ways.
Surely this is a time where you don't have to much of a cynic at all to believe this.
Sadly true. There was a time I would've given them the benefit of the doubt.
And don't call me Shirley
I've been thinking of trying out the iphone for a while now.
The reason I wasn't switching is that I install a lot of open source apps on my android device, for all kinds of things.
This change seems like it might greatly affect the current developer landscape. I've been looking for alternatives on the iphone to the apps I use and in most cases they do exist. I imagine the same will happen with android. Lots of devs are going to register and so on.
However, at that point, what difference will there be between ios and android systems that will meaningfully make me stay in android? I'll try out the iphone and see how I like it. Maybe theres something thats so commonplace right now for me that will become a deal breaker. Sort of doubt it.
Big L, as always google just doing what they do best.
On iPhones, you need to pay Apple $99/yr+taxes to do even personal development. Yes, technically they have a free tier, but it supports a max of 3 devices, which you can't change, ever. It's so painful that it might not as well exist.
Is Android doing the same? Do you have to pay them money to install your own, or open source apps?
That's what it looks like. You pay $25 and give your ID (yay more exposure from data breaches wooooo) and then you become verified. That lets your apps get installed. But if you're just installing on your own devices (with ADB), such as for development, you're fine. I see no upside to this
similar situation, except the apps I use simply don't have alternatives on iOS. I guess I'll have to find a workaround.
You'd be rewarding Apple for having originated and normalized this loss of rights. And whichever ones they go after next.
Yes.
But I need a phone, and I'd rather try the original at this point.
I expect the European Union to keep working towards keeping devices more open with time.
No. We are rewarding Apple for having well designed hardware and software integration. Something Android (Google) has failed at, but the community has carried in Googles place. Now that Google is turning their backs and slamming the door in the communities face, Android has no real competitive edge over an Apple device.
Those things don't meaningfully differentiate the flagship Apple versus Android phones once you strip away Apple's decayingly deserved darling status. I have zero problems with Android. (This new change aside.) Though it's fair for anyone to have a strong subjective preference for either one.
What differentiates them to me is that Android is still marginally freer, but it's only grudgingly at this point that I choose either.
and no doubt with adb installs to come shortly thereafter
No need to choose between Apple or Android anymore in 2027!
Right!? Apple has got to be thrilled about this. Android's one philosophically differentiating feature, that you're not bound by The App Store, just gone overnight.
But the Android users are the exact people Apple doesn't want. Just look at how the iOS App Store defenders come out whenever someone suggests that iOS should be more open. The response is, without fail, "just go buy an Android if that's what you want". Meanwhile the success that Apple has with those people has lead Google to realize it's a great idea. What will be the response now? "Just go buy a Linux phone"?
I mean, not overnight, it's 2 years from now and it's been long time coming. Play protect getting in the way, permissions to install apps from other apps (honestly a really good idea and should've been there from the start but the key is I can grant it), etc. The whole thing with getting rid of working apps that aren't updated for the sake of being updated. The writing's been on the wall.
Isnt it going to be the opposite. Everytime EU says app store needs to be opened, there's a lot of HN commenters say how that's a bad idea and how App Stores help keep "malware" away. I'm assuming a lot of those folks would be thrilled to now be on Android.
Unless, ofcourse, they were all fanboys who were just defending their favorite company without any reason.
I think most people cannot afford Apple devices
So how will this/will this be in place at all on an android device that is using AOSP without any of the play services?
It wont'. For now. But this is a long game. Google has apparently reduced the amount of contributions to AOSP and it would not be surprising if they went fully closed source in the near future. That would be the end of all roms.
Non-US countries should block Google AdSense to punish Google without affecting users.
[dead]