69 comments

  • WarOnPrivacy a day ago ago
  • jaxett a day ago ago

    I went through this process of being granted shared custody as a father in MN. My son's mom called me a rapist, abuser and had child protective services twice to my house with zero evidence. I was guilty until proven innocent. I was informally psychoanalyzed by two different parenting consultants assigned (voluntarily) by the court. I have zero criminal record. I wouldnt wish what happened to me to anyone. She was always seen as a "protective mom" and while I was emotionally tormented throughout the 3 year ordeal. I was granted shared custody after 13 months and the remainder of the 3 years were spent defending myself from lies. She only stopped after the parenting consultants would continue to compel her alone to meetings to "discuss" coparenting. The cost of those private meetings were $600/hr. I never understood why a father could just quit and walk away from their children. I now understand why. I was never going to quit but I had the advantage of money and time. I couldnt imagine going through that process if I made $50K/year. I am still processing what happened to me and I am definitely a different person now. I carry a weight with me that only I can feel. I hope they change the law and give fathers rights by default.

    • rexpop 21 hours ago ago

      Has therapy been helpful?

    • Nervhq 16 hours ago ago

      Lies! I've been told as a man your life is a constant stream of undeserved "privilege"

      God I hate these people

      • Gud 15 hours ago ago

        The comment you replied to shared a deeply personal experience. Consider what value your comment added to the discussion.

        No offense.

        • senordevnyc 12 hours ago ago

          I'm 99% sure the comment you're responding to was sarcastic and ultimately agreeing with GP.

  • pyuser583 a day ago ago

    I would go as far as to say divorce by itself should always result in split custody.

    Other proceedings can take custody away. For example, if both parents are abusive, they should both run the risk of losing custody, regardless of if they are married or divorced.

    Divorce by itself is irrelevant.

    I’m not saying we should leave kids with abusers, I’m saying the process of determine whether one or both of the parents are abusive needs to seperate from divorce.

    This is already happening.

    Many district attorneys have begun refusing to prosecute abuse claims - or any marital crime - until divorce cases are over.

    In some cases the abuse adjudication might happen first. But it shouldn’t happen at the divorce hearing.

    The idea being to separate the civil divorce from a criminal prosecution.

    Divorce should always seek to maximize parent rights for both parents.

    Other proceedings can deal with abuse.

    • ahazred8ta 5 hours ago ago

      That's kind of weird, because in other situations it's customary for the criminal investigation and trial to come before the civil cases are resolved. What's the rationale for deferring the criminal charges?

      • pyuser583 3 hours ago ago

        From what I remember, it’s concern about false allegations, and witnesses not cooperating once they realize people in prison don’t pay alimony or child support.

        Overall, it’s a desire to keep the divorce and criminal processes seperete.

  • WarOnPrivacy a day ago ago

        Kentucky’s divorce rate has plummeted.
        Between 2016 and 2023 it fell 25%, 
        compared with a nationwide decline of 18%
    • WorldPeas a day ago ago

      I would be interested to see if the national divorce rate dropping was because marriage rates were dropping, if by convention/expense/etc., and therefore decreasing unhappy marriage

      • bdcravens a day ago ago

        Or a realization that it's difficult or impossible to survive (or maintain a standard of living) in a single-income household.

        • WarOnPrivacy a day ago ago

          > it's difficult or impossible to survive (or maintain a standard of living) in a single-income household.

          You aren't wrong. We've been in a 4-income economy since 2020. Housing here is up 2x since 2020 and 5x from mid 1990s.

    • ahmeneeroe-v2 a day ago ago

      Very interesting I didn't realize divorce rates were dropping across the nation. Still seems like KY is ~40% better than the average.

      • anacrolix 12 hours ago ago

        When you're at the bottom the only direction is up: marriage rates

  • kixiQu a day ago ago

    Having a system as described where parents with evidence of abuse can't protect their kids from abusers seems absolutely unacceptable. Patching over that with the current unfair assumptions about men vs. women as suitable parents isn't better!

    • dsadfjasdf a day ago ago

      oh is that how it's described?

      • mionhe a day ago ago

        Well, the author of the article found several people sharing experiences that they heard from other people that seem to give credence to that view.

        Hard to know at this point if the problem is with specific judges, with the way the law is written, or if the presentation of these experiences are made to seem more numerous by the way the article presents the story. It also didn't cover instances of abuse coming from mothers, so there's at least a little bias in the story.

    • ENGNR a day ago ago

      [flagged]

      • JPKab a day ago ago

        Feminist activists funded my mother's legal bills to win custody of me and my 4 siblings when she and my father divorced. My mother was a bipolar drug addict and the activists ignored this, and within a year social services gave us back to my father after neighbors called the police when my older sisters asked them for food. The police found me and my twin brother inside, abandoned in a crib, my mother nowhere to be found.

        We suffered a year of neglect and abuse because of biased custody laws pushed by feminist activists, who project the traits of the worst men onto all of men, and pretend all women are angelic. I deeply resent it, and the "critics" in this article are doing the same thing.

      • kixiQu a day ago ago

        I am a feminist here commenting in support of shared custody.

      • cam_l a day ago ago

        Not entirely true. They actually removed family violence as a direct factor and instead now look at the safety of all parties and best interests of children as the primary factors. We are yet to see how it plays out. But anecdotal data from people I know in the family court space suggests some judges are using the change to effect better and safer parenting arrangements and some are using it as a way to dismiss entering complaints of family into the record at all (even ones verified by police).

        As i recall, the mandatory shared parenting was a stupid & anachronistic captains call from little johnny, via toxic father lobby groups. It put more levers for coercive control at the hands of the few men who perpetrate family violence and just made everything more difficult for everyone else. Remember, something like 80-90% of parenting cases which enter the family court system are settled out of court. But of the ones who do go through the courts, family violence is a factor in something like 70% of those cases.[0]

        I have no doubt that the increase in family violence, both incidence and intensity, in the over the past 20 years is directly linked to this policy.

        [0] it is hard to get current stats on this figure, they are now lumping fv in with all safety factors, including drug use and criminal activity.

  • toomuchtodo a day ago ago

    I’d be curious to see what the marriage and fertility rate is over the next five years.

    • TimorousBestie a day ago ago

      Not sure what the causal connection would be there.

      • toomuchtodo a day ago ago

        If women feel like it is no longer safe to marry because they will be forced into equal custody, those rates would decline. Safer to stay single and childfree (from a risk management perspective).

        Not that this is too far off from existing trends, so I'm unsure if measuring in Kentucky alone is enough to control against the broader national trends:

        https://www.morganstanley.com/ideas/womens-impact-on-the-eco...

        > 45% of prime working age women (ages 25-44) will be single by 2030—the largest share in history—up from 41% in 2018.

        https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025

        > Just 48% of young Americans say having kids is important—the lowest ranking among the six life goals we measured. It signifies a generational shift away from traditional family formation.

        • potato3732842 a day ago ago

          >If women feel like it is no longer safe to marry because they will be forced into equal custody

          The word choice of your comment is beyond absurd and your usual schtick of cherry picking links to back up your point doesn't make it any less absurd.

          It's mostly men who don't wanna get married and/or start a family and do all that stuff because (in states that have yet to reform their laws) they stand to lose half their shit and not even have half a kid to show for it.

          I have zero sympathy for people, of any gender, for whom not being on the favorable end of unequal treatment in divorce/custody is the marginal difference that makes them not get married.

          • bryanlarsen a day ago ago

            > It's mostly men who don't wanna get married and/or start a family and do all that stuff because (in states that have yet to reform their laws) they stand to lose half their shit and not even have half a kid to show for it.

            > I have zero sympathy for people, of any gender, for whom not being on the favorable end of unequal treatment in divorce/custody is the marginal difference that makes them not get married.

            I guess you have zero sympathy for a large chunk of men then, because first you say that men don't get married because they lose their stuff in a divorce, and then you say that you have zero sympathy for people who don't get married because of it.

            • saghm a day ago ago

              "I would get married but I don't trust my potential spouse not to screw me over" is just not something that requires sympathy. If that's how someone feels, it's probably better for everyone (them, their spouse, and society as a whole) that they don't get married. There's no virtue in being married without a strong basis of mutual trust, nor is there any shame in remaining unmarried because you haven't found someone right for you

            • MarkusQ a day ago ago

              Simply on semantic grounds, this is an unreasonable conclusion. "I will not do X unless I am given an unfair advantage" is not at all the same as "I will not do X if the system is unfairly biased against me".

            • a day ago ago
              [deleted]
            • bobsmooth a day ago ago

              Where's the contradiction? No sympathy for those that don't marry, sympathy for those that do.

          • toomuchtodo a day ago ago

            I don’t believe my citations are wrong, nor that they’re out of context as it relates to demographic trends, but you’re free to provide your own if you have them.

            Additional citations below:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UThiu3Q_NcQ

            https://19thnews.org/2025/09/poll-traditional-family-gender-...

            https://19thnews.org/2025/09/polling-2025/

            • potato3732842 a day ago ago

              Its not your citations that are wrong, regardless of quality or bias I'm sure they back up your opinion.

              It's your opinion that I take issue with.

              • toomuchtodo a day ago ago

                Your thoughts of my opinions and mental models are irrelevant to me, but of course you’re free to comment as much as you’d like and mods will allow. I take no offense because I do not care, and no offense is intended in informing.

                • Nervhq 16 hours ago ago

                  You're irrelevant to everything

        • mindslight a day ago ago

          > If women feel like it is no longer safe to marry because they will be forced into equal custody, those rates would decline

          IIUC, the new neutral bias applies regardless of marriage.

          If a woman is looking to create a kid whom she has sole custody of, then what she is really looking for is a DIY sperm donor. I'm sure there are plenty of men downright eager to sign a contract relinquishing any paternity claim/liability as a condition of dating.

          If you're talking about cases where a woman wants to create a kid, while retaining a unilateral ability to choose whether to have the man in the kid's life or not? That is a terrible dynamic and is exactly what needed reform.

          • claytongulick a day ago ago

            > I'm sure there are plenty of men downright eager to sign a contract relinquishing any paternity claim/liability as a condition of dating.

            Are there?

            I don't know. I don't think most men are as mercenary as that.

            As someone who was literally offered this situation (a lesbian couple I was friends with that wanted a child) I can say that it simply wasn't something I could seriously consider.

            How could I exist knowing that I had a child that I had little or no relationship with? A child who would constantly wonder about their father and why I wasn't part of their life?

            I don't think it's just me, I think most guys would have a problem with that.

            And maybe the ones that don't wouldn't be the best choice for being a father?

            • mindslight a day ago ago

              Sperm donors exist. It doesn't need to be most, or even that many. When I wrote my comment I was thinking of the many young guys that don't want to be trapped into settling down, but I agree when it comes down to it it is a much bigger mental hurdle knowing that the intent is to definitely produce a child.

        • EPWN3D a day ago ago

          > If women feel like it is no longer safe to marry because they will be forced into equal custody, those rates would decline.

          What kind of a batshit characterization of women is this? You think women will only marry a man if they are guaranteed custody of any potential children in a potential divorce?

          • toomuchtodo a day ago ago

            It is my belief, in the American macro of policy, it is simply rational and prudent for women to avoid marriage and children whenever possible (as a practitioner in risk management, assessing and managing risk, and a rationalist) so long as the policy is what it is. My opinion would change if the policy, macro, and experience changes and failure modes are less brutal (there’s ~$100B in child support debt outstanding, single parent outcomes are suboptimal, 23 million children live in a single parent home, etc). But as it stands, you’re setting yourself up for failure by entertaining marriage (considering 40-50% failure rates for first marriages) and children (two incomes required, $330k to raise a child 0-18 in 2023 dollars excluding daycare and college). The median household income in Kentucky as of this comment is ~$62k/year. Half of all violent crime in Kentucky over the last six years was domestic violence of both men and women. Returning to the labor force as a stay at home parent (if divorce occurs), regardless of gender, is challenging at best. Might as well skydive without a parachute and hope you’re lucky enough to fall into a tree.

            People change as well. Who you marry is potentially not who you want or need a divorce from. Sometimes the economic unpleasantness can be avoided with prenups, but this is much more rare than it should be. Choices can lead to substantial long term obligations and liability, binding for one to two decades, and I think better choices can be made (based on the evidence and the data).

            My opinions in this thread are not gender driven, but data driven.

            (~40% of pregnancies in the US are unintended every year as well, per the Guttmacher Institute, although I don’t have Kentucky specific numbers at hand in that context)

            • Nervhq 16 hours ago ago

              [flagged]

              • 14 hours ago ago
                [deleted]
  • OutOfHere a day ago ago

    For most men, marriage is one of the most unwise actions they can legally take in their life. This is due to it being co-opted by the state for its own purposes. Society needs a new word and a new social status for the element of marriage, but without its legal standing, e.g. "maritage" (signifying the heritage of marriage).

    • em-bee 6 hours ago ago

      in germany, living together already forces you into most of the obligations you'd have when married. especially when you have children. but worse, you have less rights. unlike a divorce, shared custody is not automatically assumed, and you are less likely to get it. (it used to be that the mother could simply deny it but that changed 15 years ago)

    • TrnsltLife 7 hours ago ago

      In a non common law marriage state you can probably have a wedding, say your vows, and live as man and bride. Consult a lawyer for local gotchas.

      France has the legal status of living in concubinage, so man and concubine. Pretty much the same as live-in girlfriend.

      Some terms that could work: Man and bride Concubine Wedded/conjugal/nuptial state/union This is my wedded bride. This is my wedded man. etc.

    • potato3732842 a day ago ago

      It's always been co-opted. It's just now it's a way worse deal than it used to be.

  • blindriver a day ago ago

    [dead]

    • WarOnPrivacy a day ago ago

      > I couldn't go into a playground without some thought of having to prove I wasn't a child trafficker.

      I was my wife's caregiver and dad to 5 young sons over 20years. I was the sole parent taking them to playgrounds and other outdoor activities, upwards to 200x a year.

      In all those events, I never experienced nor witnessed anything remotely like what you described. Not for me and not for any other solo dad. On rare occasion, I was complimented for spending time with them. That's about all the notice I got.

      • blindriver a day ago ago

        Thanks for the anecdote.

        • WarOnPrivacy a day ago ago

          Thanks! This particular one occurred over 1000x. I made my kids sick of every playground within 50 miles.

          • octopoc a day ago ago

            I think it's fair to assume things like these are location dependent.

            • WarOnPrivacy a day ago ago

              > I think it's fair to assume things like these are location dependent.

              Well, it certainly puts the notion on the table.

              Let's run with that. Let's say that qualified folks have evidenced this phenomenon; we've learned there are regions in the US where playground dads are routinely considered to be dangerous to their own kids (and presumably kids in general).

              And it's not universal. This indicates there's some strong social effect that can be tightly limited to a region - be widespread and pervasive in one region and fully absent in another.

              What sort of effect could mass-mold minds across an entire region yet still be so geographically limited?

    • bryanlarsen a day ago ago

      They can fix the law without abandoning the 50/50 principle. There are several anecdotes in the article about judges ignoring evidence of abuse.

      • gjsman-1000 a day ago ago

        > There are several anecdotes in the article about judges ignoring evidence of abuse

        If the judge wasn't convinced in the anecdote when it was his job to figure it out with his career on the line, we have no right to assume that the judge got it wrong, without additional evidence. Feigning victimhood is a popular sport.

  • gjsman-1000 a day ago ago

    [flagged]

    • cam_l a day ago ago

      But men are the perpetrator in around 75% of all domestic or family violence cases, if you read the stats a bit more carefully. You have got to be careful of people mixing perp and victim data, and also lumping stats. Both of which are present in your post, along with cherry picking the one and only piece of data on that site that (kinda) supports your point!

      Truth is men are responsible for most violence, most rape, most sexual assault, serious injury or death.

      It is also important to remember that most perpetrators are men != most men are perpetrators.

      And, the truth is also that women commit abuse at about the same rate as men. They are just as likely to abuse their kids, their partners, or their family. That abuse is just more likely to show up as emotional or coercive rather than physical.

      • Nervhq 16 hours ago ago

        >supports your point! Truth is men are responsible for most violence, most rape, most sexual assault, serious injury or death.

        Now do black people you man hating bully

    • Antoniocl a day ago ago

      So I agree that your inference is probably correct, but it is worth pointing out that the rate which a sex experiences X from their intimate partners isn't exactly the same as the rate at which the other sex does X to their partners, namely because of non-heterosexual couples.

      For example, you could imagine a world where men are significantly more likely than women to commit DV, making some subset of that 28.5% men who have suffered at the hands of other men. It would also imply that gay women are less likely to experience DV, which would widen the gap further. That said, I believe many more couples are hetero than not, so maybe it wouldn't make much of a difference.

      To be clear, I'm not making this specific claim about men, just illustrating that I think the statistic quoted doesn't _directly_ justify the claim "women aren't that much less likely to offend" (although it does lend credence to it)

      • cam_l a day ago ago

        Not only that, but if you actually click through to their link, they had to filter through a dozen stats illustrating your exact point to get their one (misleading) stat to claim otherwise.

        A masterclass in intellectual dishonesty.

      • bobsmooth a day ago ago

        Lesbian couples have the highest rates of DV.

        • djcapelis a day ago ago

          You’ve made the same mistake the poster you’re replying to pointed out. Women in lesbian relationships have a high rate of having experienced domestic violence in their lives, and a study reported this which has then spread around the internet as a meme of sorts. For the vast majority of those same women, the same study reported that the domestic violence they experienced was in a previous relationship, with a man.

          So, no.

          • Nervhq 16 hours ago ago

            Lol as always, zero accountability for women even when they are literally lesbian

    • bdcravens a day ago ago

      > experienced rape, physical violence, and/or stalking

      Some quantification is needed here to make this list have any meaning. Rape stands alone, but physical violence and stalking can mean a lot in terms of damage and threat level. A single slap falls under the same general category of physical violence as a full-on fist beating. Stalking can be showing up the gym at their scheduled time, or it can be camping outside of their house.

    • bonsai_spool a day ago ago

      > , and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime.

      This is absolutely the wrong statistic to apply.

      This discusses the lifetime risk of ANY IPV event and does not even limit this to people who have children.

      But despite being the wrong statistic, there’s 25% increase in lifetime risk for women over men

    • klaff a day ago ago

      You're quoting statistics on victims but talking about offenders.

    • thatguy0900 a day ago ago

      Not to mention when you start looking into domestic violence rates among lesbian couples