The main lobbying group in the USA in this area posted a tweet after the 2024 democratic primaries, to brag about how they achieved a 100% success rate in getting candidates they endorse to win the primary elections.
-I don’t see how a lobby group in the USA has any influence over countries in the Middle East.
The USA has a bigger military than all the countries in the Middle East Combined. And uses it on the regular. (Israel also has a bigger military than all its neighbors, the only one that has a larger or comparable military is Iran, which is about 1000 miles away to the border.)
-I’ve been doing some research and it seems like half the countries in the Middle East marginalize or have completely expelled Palestinians.
Which ones? Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, three of the immediate neighbors of Israel, have 2.3million, 560k, and 480k registered palestinian refugees. Registered means being tracked by UN agency that tracks these things, its possible they missed a few hundred thousand or million.
There was a change of policy in these countries as well as in Gaza when it was noticed that palestinians that left as refugees have no legal route to going back to their country of origin, because Israel does not consider their claims valid and its 10x easier to keep them out of the country once they leave than it is to force them to leave.
The Gaza Strip itself was the host to some 1 million+ refugees prior to the outbreak of the war. That is 1 million people that used to have a home in Israel proper that now do not, and its the official policy of Israel that they can never return under any circumstances. It remains for the conflict to end to get an updated count with the new, lower number.
The countries in the middle east have collectively made the game theory decision that the best chance for Palestinians to gain real independence and be someday allowed to return to the land they lived in for centuries is to stop taking refugees. Its a heartbreakingly sad situation on many levels.
-If that’s the case, there’s a lot of complex and ugly history no one wants to get involved with.
It is likely uglier than you know. I encourage anyone that is interest to learn more of the history of events, from multiple sources. You might appreciate this interview with a Rabbi who opposes not just Zionism but the creation of Israel itself, from mainly a religious doctrinal point of view but also as a condemnation of what it has done so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhnIZTMM2-w
1. Similarly or larger sized military in the region: Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Pakistan - depends a bit on how you're comparing.
2. Having no right to return to the country you fled is pretty common situation in the world and by no way specific to the Middle East. An additional point is that people were not fleeing Israel - they were fleeing e.g. the British Empire and Israel has absolutely no legal obligation to allow the refugees from the British Empire to enter. And, additionally, nowhere else in the world are descendants of refugees, who are born in other countries, are considered refugees. They may be considered illegals, though - which is still a completely different situation.
3. Syria and Lebanon are basically failed states with no real power to expel anyone. Situation with Jordan is even more interesting - the Kingdom of Jordan actually occupied (1948) and annexed (1950) the West Bank, making "Palestinians" in the West Bank actually Jordanians. So calling anyone of them "refugee" is more than questionable.
The Preparatory Committee of the Sudanese Doctors Union reported that over 522,000 infants have died from malnutrition since the outbreak of the war, with 286,000 additional cases of malnutrition recorded
In some cases, it is precisely that. Ireland, for a fact, has been economically threatened for putting forward measures against Israel, ie [0]. We only know this because of investigative journalists, not mainstream media.
Then you can look at America's sanctions against Francesca Albanese, and ICC judges [1], which has the additional effect of 'legally' allowing America to sanction anyone who supports them.
Trump and Europe just signed a 'deal' which was basically just Europe promising to buy arms and LNG for the next 5 years, and pay more in tariffs, getting nothing in return. This is about as strong a suggestion that they are being threatened in some way that you could ask for.
And then there's a huge range of threats coming from Israel itself, such as thinly veiled threats to not allow citizens out of various countries out of Gaza [2].
A majority of the people in European countries are aghast, horrified, traumatized by the daily atrocities being committed with the tacit backing of their political and media classes. The disconnect has never been quite so stark.
> Everyone is just standing around saying how bad it is but they are perfectly content to let Gaza be leveled while they keep trading with Israel.
Again, all across Europe people are taking all the action they can; and are being brutally suppressed by state forces in response. Corporate and state media invert reality with a terrifying consistency, such as in Amsterdam with the football hooligans. In Germany peaceful protesters are being savagely beaten on the daily, and (illegally) threatened with deportation. In England, they are being charged as terrorists for holding signs supporting necessary Action in Palestine.
Even in Ireland, long-time bastion of anti-colonialism, peaceful protesters have been strip searched, had their hijabs removed, and detained. We've been working for years to end trade with Israel, but somehow our trade has increased sharply the past couple years, and we're even selling Israeli bonds out of our Central Bank. There's a lot more going on here than apathy.
> who really cares about genocide in Africa? Maybe there isn’t anything different when it comes to genocide elsewhere. :(
If you want to understand those conflicts, just follow the money. It always seems to lead right back to Western interests, after being washed in the UAE.
The thing is, there is massive profit being made from these genocides. Trade routes, oil, land, arms development, funding, minerals, gold, political control, media control; there's something in it for all the oligarchs.
I am personally surprised this isn't [flagged] [dead] already, I would have anticipated that too. Political topics tend to be flagged immediately, even when the politics had clear and immediate implication for the tech community.
Maybe this is a sign that consensus is shifting. It seems now that it's more politically risky to deny Israel's committing warcrimes than it is to acknowledge it.
While I agree with much of what this blogpost says, I am surprised it's still up, especially since there doesn't seem to be much implication for the tech community, or discussion about what it means. (It is significant that one of the countries most central to the worldwide tech community is committing genocide and is increasingly seen as a pariah state, but even then, that is not what's being discussed here.)
EDIT: I spoke to soon, this was [flagged] just as I posted my comment.
What is also disappointing what goes unflagged in these threads. Early in the genocide, whenever I called it a genocide I got my post [flagged][dead], that happens less often now. But it is clear by now that anyone who engages in genocide denalism at this point has an extreme and hateful opinion which shouldn’t be allowed anywhere (including a tech forum). And yet frequently I come across these hateful posts which are left unflagged for days. I think this is a failure in moderation.
It was flagged, but was restored. Sadly, that's still a bit effective at suppressing the story.
The flags often have the effect of pushing things off the front page, even when they're restored within an hour or so. Not always though: this story [0] from today is currently front page after having been flagged as well.
Even temporary flagging also has the effect of diluting the conversation; so that instead of talking about war crimes, their perpetrators, or how to stop them, we're talking about flagging and algorithms.
For the sake of mutual understanding, let's say Israel are the good guys, Hamas are terrorists, and the IDF is a righteous force whose only goal in Gaza is to capture terrorists.
What happens to everyone else in Gaza? Is "starve them all" an acceptable response to a hostage situation?
Was there a very active thread that got locked and is now unsearchable? Same country, different but related accusations.
The really strange thing is no one seems to be doing anything material against Israel. No real sanctions, etc.
And it’s not because they are afraid of America. Some European countries stopped sending military supplies a while back.
Everyone is just standing around saying how bad it is but they are perfectly content to let Gaza be leveled while they keep trading with Israel.
The only people taking meaningful action seems to be Iran and the terrorist groups they support. And that seems more opportunistic than anything else.
Then again, who really cares about genocide in Africa? Maybe there isn’t anything different when it comes to genocide elsewhere. :(
The main lobbying group in the USA in this area posted a tweet after the 2024 democratic primaries, to brag about how they achieved a 100% success rate in getting candidates they endorse to win the primary elections.
Perhaps there is a relation?
I don’t see how a lobby group in the USA has any influence over countries in the Middle East.
I’ve been doing some research and it seems like half the countries in the Middle East marginalize or have completely expelled Palestinians.
If that’s the case, there’s a lot of complex and ugly history no one wants to get involved with.
Good points.
-I don’t see how a lobby group in the USA has any influence over countries in the Middle East.
The USA has a bigger military than all the countries in the Middle East Combined. And uses it on the regular. (Israel also has a bigger military than all its neighbors, the only one that has a larger or comparable military is Iran, which is about 1000 miles away to the border.)
-I’ve been doing some research and it seems like half the countries in the Middle East marginalize or have completely expelled Palestinians.
Which ones? Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, three of the immediate neighbors of Israel, have 2.3million, 560k, and 480k registered palestinian refugees. Registered means being tracked by UN agency that tracks these things, its possible they missed a few hundred thousand or million.
There was a change of policy in these countries as well as in Gaza when it was noticed that palestinians that left as refugees have no legal route to going back to their country of origin, because Israel does not consider their claims valid and its 10x easier to keep them out of the country once they leave than it is to force them to leave.
The Gaza Strip itself was the host to some 1 million+ refugees prior to the outbreak of the war. That is 1 million people that used to have a home in Israel proper that now do not, and its the official policy of Israel that they can never return under any circumstances. It remains for the conflict to end to get an updated count with the new, lower number.
The countries in the middle east have collectively made the game theory decision that the best chance for Palestinians to gain real independence and be someday allowed to return to the land they lived in for centuries is to stop taking refugees. Its a heartbreakingly sad situation on many levels.
-If that’s the case, there’s a lot of complex and ugly history no one wants to get involved with.
It is likely uglier than you know. I encourage anyone that is interest to learn more of the history of events, from multiple sources. You might appreciate this interview with a Rabbi who opposes not just Zionism but the creation of Israel itself, from mainly a religious doctrinal point of view but also as a condemnation of what it has done so far. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhnIZTMM2-w
1. Similarly or larger sized military in the region: Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Ethiopia, Pakistan - depends a bit on how you're comparing.
2. Having no right to return to the country you fled is pretty common situation in the world and by no way specific to the Middle East. An additional point is that people were not fleeing Israel - they were fleeing e.g. the British Empire and Israel has absolutely no legal obligation to allow the refugees from the British Empire to enter. And, additionally, nowhere else in the world are descendants of refugees, who are born in other countries, are considered refugees. They may be considered illegals, though - which is still a completely different situation.
3. Syria and Lebanon are basically failed states with no real power to expel anyone. Situation with Jordan is even more interesting - the Kingdom of Jordan actually occupied (1948) and annexed (1950) the West Bank, making "Palestinians" in the West Bank actually Jordanians. So calling anyone of them "refugee" is more than questionable.
Its not strange if you are keeping tabs on how many complex problems they haven't solved and made worse in the last few decades - https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/the-violent-exhaustion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024%E2%80%93...
The Preparatory Committee of the Sudanese Doctors Union reported that over 522,000 infants have died from malnutrition since the outbreak of the war, with 286,000 additional cases of malnutrition recorded
> it’s not because they are afraid of America.
In some cases, it is precisely that. Ireland, for a fact, has been economically threatened for putting forward measures against Israel, ie [0]. We only know this because of investigative journalists, not mainstream media.
Then you can look at America's sanctions against Francesca Albanese, and ICC judges [1], which has the additional effect of 'legally' allowing America to sanction anyone who supports them.
Trump and Europe just signed a 'deal' which was basically just Europe promising to buy arms and LNG for the next 5 years, and pay more in tariffs, getting nothing in return. This is about as strong a suggestion that they are being threatened in some way that you could ask for.
And then there's a huge range of threats coming from Israel itself, such as thinly veiled threats to not allow citizens out of various countries out of Gaza [2].
A majority of the people in European countries are aghast, horrified, traumatized by the daily atrocities being committed with the tacit backing of their political and media classes. The disconnect has never been quite so stark.
> Everyone is just standing around saying how bad it is but they are perfectly content to let Gaza be leveled while they keep trading with Israel.
Again, all across Europe people are taking all the action they can; and are being brutally suppressed by state forces in response. Corporate and state media invert reality with a terrifying consistency, such as in Amsterdam with the football hooligans. In Germany peaceful protesters are being savagely beaten on the daily, and (illegally) threatened with deportation. In England, they are being charged as terrorists for holding signs supporting necessary Action in Palestine.
Even in Ireland, long-time bastion of anti-colonialism, peaceful protesters have been strip searched, had their hijabs removed, and detained. We've been working for years to end trade with Israel, but somehow our trade has increased sharply the past couple years, and we're even selling Israeli bonds out of our Central Bank. There's a lot more going on here than apathy.
> who really cares about genocide in Africa? Maybe there isn’t anything different when it comes to genocide elsewhere. :(
If you want to understand those conflicts, just follow the money. It always seems to lead right back to Western interests, after being washed in the UAE.
The thing is, there is massive profit being made from these genocides. Trade routes, oil, land, arms development, funding, minerals, gold, political control, media control; there's something in it for all the oligarchs.
0 - https://www.ontheditch.com/us-ambassador-warned/
1 - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70rllxr0kyo
2 - https://x.com/wereontheditch/status/1768702362615460116
CNN : For first time, two leading Israeli human rights groups accuse Israel of genocide in Gaza
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/28/middleeast/israeli-human-...
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide
https://imgur.com/gallery/resistance-songs-threat-level-oran...
singing what we cant say
This is amazing-thanks for sharing!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/28/israel-committ...
[flagged]
When it isn't, will you acknowledge you were wrong and change your predictions?
I am personally surprised this isn't [flagged] [dead] already, I would have anticipated that too. Political topics tend to be flagged immediately, even when the politics had clear and immediate implication for the tech community.
Maybe this is a sign that consensus is shifting. It seems now that it's more politically risky to deny Israel's committing warcrimes than it is to acknowledge it.
While I agree with much of what this blogpost says, I am surprised it's still up, especially since there doesn't seem to be much implication for the tech community, or discussion about what it means. (It is significant that one of the countries most central to the worldwide tech community is committing genocide and is increasingly seen as a pariah state, but even then, that is not what's being discussed here.)
EDIT: I spoke to soon, this was [flagged] just as I posted my comment.
What is also disappointing what goes unflagged in these threads. Early in the genocide, whenever I called it a genocide I got my post [flagged][dead], that happens less often now. But it is clear by now that anyone who engages in genocide denalism at this point has an extreme and hateful opinion which shouldn’t be allowed anywhere (including a tech forum). And yet frequently I come across these hateful posts which are left unflagged for days. I think this is a failure in moderation.
> I think this is a failure in moderation.
Thousands of comments are posted each day and there are two moderators. Have you emailed us about the bad comments you see?
I will do so in the future.
I see that the posts I was calling out for this the past couple of days have been taken down now. I assume you did that. Thank you for that.
Just to be clear, are you openly stating that you agree that someone who doesn't engage in blood libel will be banned?
Honestly, I'm just here to uphold the HN guidelines, which are pretty clear and simple.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
It's currently flagged, so perhaps you should ask yourself the same question?
It's not currently flagged, on my screen at least? And it still shows up in the regular list, although no longer the first page.
It was flagged, but was restored. Sadly, that's still a bit effective at suppressing the story.
The flags often have the effect of pushing things off the front page, even when they're restored within an hour or so. Not always though: this story [0] from today is currently front page after having been flagged as well.
Even temporary flagging also has the effect of diluting the conversation; so that instead of talking about war crimes, their perpetrators, or how to stop them, we're talking about flagging and algorithms.
0 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44714221#44715661
You didn't read the news ? The apartheid and the genocide must come to the end so that it ends the war. Then time for Justice can come.
This was on page 1. I refreshed my browser and it vanished.
[flagged]
For the sake of mutual understanding, let's say Israel are the good guys, Hamas are terrorists, and the IDF is a righteous force whose only goal in Gaza is to capture terrorists.
What happens to everyone else in Gaza? Is "starve them all" an acceptable response to a hostage situation?
Yes, the Israeli government seems convinced that hostages don't need to eat
CNN : For first time, two leading Israeli human rights groups accuse Israel of genocide in Gaza
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/28/middleeast/israeli-human-...
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202507_our_genocide