How? Did Ryujinx cross any lines? I thought emulators were OK given they didn't include verbatim binary payloads and the like. What's Nintendo's leverage here?
Also, for that matter, the last I heard was that the Yuzu steam release was killed, but it seems to have been killed beyond that?
Second hand from other members of the dev team, apparently Nintendo lawyers approached the lead dev at his home with a Cease and Desist. Apparently they reached an agreement, as his fork went private and the Ryujinx organization went private.
So basically they got to the dev that controlled its online presence, and pressured him into removing it and abandoning the project. Naturally this scared off the other devs. So it's dead in the sense that no one is maintaining it and it was deplatformed.
While nothing is stopping anyone from continuing the project, the community is fragmented (there's a bunch of mirrors/forks but no primary fork), and there was zero knowledge transfer - anyone picking this up has to build their experience with both the code base and switch internals from scratch.
This has never been tested in court - the bleem case was before DMCA. Nintendo is always playing the copyright and security circumvention card and no one wants to fight it (understandably). Details of the Ryujinx case are not public but I guess they used the Yuzu case as a threat.
Yuzu was killed because Nintendo sued Tropic Haze LLC (the company behind Yuzu) and issued a permanent injunction.
> Apple sued security start-up Corellium last year, accusing it of violating copyright law for offering researchers access to “virtual” iPhones that can help them find bugs in iOS products. Now, a federal judge in Florida has tossed Apple’s copyright complaint, giving Corellium a major victory in its legal battle against the tech giant.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are legal (e.g. look at Wine), but in a US court Nintendo will happily make it so expensive for a defendant that they have no choice but to concede.
I can see that killing development by Tropic Haze, but the repositories are gone and not just stopped/locked/archived, and all forks seem to be eliminated too. I didn't think it was possible to that thoroughly kill an open source project, but nintendo apparently managed somehow.
Because there is an injunction against the Yuzu source code and it's radioactive so no one touches it. There are a few forks but none active (and the devs of them just slap a new logo on it and call it a day).
It's only going to get harder (for Nintendo) as the Switch 2 will be their second generation console based on tweaked commodity hardware. When you're close enough to hardware people already own that the amount of true emulation needed is minimal
making it easier than past consoles to have performant emulation.
Correct, just a variant of the Tegra SoC found on e.g. the Shield TV and most things (sound, graphics, security functions, system functions) are emulated at high level rather than hardware level. The problem for Nintendo is the Switch 2 is going to be the second generation to use a slightly modified Nvidia SoC like this so, unless the system software is vastly different, it will be significantly less complicated to spin up an emulator for this "new" system. E.g. Ryujinx had already been just using virtualization instead of emulation for the CPU on Apple Silicon devices.
With Yuzu and Ryujinx both being killed ~7 years into the Switch's lifespan and ~ <1 year before the Switch 2 I really wonder how much of their interest was in not having fully functioning switch 2 emulators before they even finished launching the hardware globally.
I wonder if it isn't handheld PCs that are scaring them, because I would never buy a Nintendo device for my children when unencumbered and repairable hardware is becoming abundant.
Aside from their litigious nature against emulators they robbed as many people as possible with habitually faulty Switch controllers until the EU forced them to provide a lifetime warranty, their no-refund policy is illegal in many places, and they demand launch-day prices on games in perpetuity because their monopoly on much of gaming's culture allows them to.
Yuzu should have never played with fire. But to be honest, aren't Nintendo going after Palworld devs at the moment? Feels like this all ultimately boils down to someone in legal being let off their chain.
How? Did Ryujinx cross any lines? I thought emulators were OK given they didn't include verbatim binary payloads and the like. What's Nintendo's leverage here?
Also, for that matter, the last I heard was that the Yuzu steam release was killed, but it seems to have been killed beyond that?
Second hand from other members of the dev team, apparently Nintendo lawyers approached the lead dev at his home with a Cease and Desist. Apparently they reached an agreement, as his fork went private and the Ryujinx organization went private.
So basically they got to the dev that controlled its online presence, and pressured him into removing it and abandoning the project. Naturally this scared off the other devs. So it's dead in the sense that no one is maintaining it and it was deplatformed.
While nothing is stopping anyone from continuing the project, the community is fragmented (there's a bunch of mirrors/forks but no primary fork), and there was zero knowledge transfer - anyone picking this up has to build their experience with both the code base and switch internals from scratch.
>emulators were OK
This has never been tested in court - the bleem case was before DMCA. Nintendo is always playing the copyright and security circumvention card and no one wants to fight it (understandably). Details of the Ryujinx case are not public but I guess they used the Yuzu case as a threat.
Yuzu was killed because Nintendo sued Tropic Haze LLC (the company behind Yuzu) and issued a permanent injunction.
Apple lost trying to argue that iOS shouldn't be emulated too.
https://www.engadget.com/apple-loss-lawsuit-corellium-120347...
> Apple sued security start-up Corellium last year, accusing it of violating copyright law for offering researchers access to “virtual” iPhones that can help them find bugs in iOS products. Now, a federal judge in Florida has tossed Apple’s copyright complaint, giving Corellium a major victory in its legal battle against the tech giant.
Corellium doesn't emulate iOS. It emulates the hardware so it can install iOS.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are legal (e.g. look at Wine), but in a US court Nintendo will happily make it so expensive for a defendant that they have no choice but to concede.
I can see that killing development by Tropic Haze, but the repositories are gone and not just stopped/locked/archived, and all forks seem to be eliminated too. I didn't think it was possible to that thoroughly kill an open source project, but nintendo apparently managed somehow.
Because there is an injunction against the Yuzu source code and it's radioactive so no one touches it. There are a few forks but none active (and the devs of them just slap a new logo on it and call it a day).
FWIW, the emulator and source are all still circulating in less prominent places. It'll be back at some point.
I don't think they crossed any line. But a private person cannot defend themselves against a billion dollar company.
Nintendo asked with their lawyer goons and the dev agreed
[dupe]
More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41711709
I hate Nintendo
It's only going to get harder (for Nintendo) as the Switch 2 will be their second generation console based on tweaked commodity hardware. When you're close enough to hardware people already own that the amount of true emulation needed is minimal making it easier than past consoles to have performant emulation.
The switch uses an ARM processor I imagine? Not something custom? What chips do they have that are bespoke and have to be fully emulated?
Correct, just a variant of the Tegra SoC found on e.g. the Shield TV and most things (sound, graphics, security functions, system functions) are emulated at high level rather than hardware level. The problem for Nintendo is the Switch 2 is going to be the second generation to use a slightly modified Nvidia SoC like this so, unless the system software is vastly different, it will be significantly less complicated to spin up an emulator for this "new" system. E.g. Ryujinx had already been just using virtualization instead of emulation for the CPU on Apple Silicon devices.
With Yuzu and Ryujinx both being killed ~7 years into the Switch's lifespan and ~ <1 year before the Switch 2 I really wonder how much of their interest was in not having fully functioning switch 2 emulators before they even finished launching the hardware globally.
I wonder if it isn't handheld PCs that are scaring them, because I would never buy a Nintendo device for my children when unencumbered and repairable hardware is becoming abundant.
Aside from their litigious nature against emulators they robbed as many people as possible with habitually faulty Switch controllers until the EU forced them to provide a lifetime warranty, their no-refund policy is illegal in many places, and they demand launch-day prices on games in perpetuity because their monopoly on much of gaming's culture allows them to.
Yuzu should have never played with fire. But to be honest, aren't Nintendo going after Palworld devs at the moment? Feels like this all ultimately boils down to someone in legal being let off their chain.
Nintendo has always been offensively litiguous
25 years towards the emulator scene to my knowledge