Kris Kristofferson was one of my fav song-writers. For the longest time, I thought _Me and Bobby McGee_ was Janis Joplin's original song, until I learnt it was Kris' writing. He actually wrote it for a woman named Bobby... the rest is history. [1]
A Golden Globe-winning actor, Golden Gloves boxer, Rhodes scholar, author, U.S. Army veteran, pilot, and onetime record-label janitor. A full fledged Renaissance man. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.
Whattay guy! RIP Kris. Thanks for all the enduring songs!!
I once heard or read an interview with him on NPR, saying that he wrote the song at a time when he was working flying helicopters to oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. This had the odd effect of reminding me of the distance between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, and calling into question size of the truck driver's repertory of songs.
Bobby being short for... Roberta? But then again, after I recently saw female pop singer Taylor Swift watching male tennis player Taylor Fritz at the US Open, I realized that some American first names are just... flexible.
It's pretty common in the US for a name that is traditionally associated with boys become unisex (Taylor) or even prominently female (Lauren). Typically it is an uncommon male name (so not, e.g. John or Brian) that sees a sudden increase in popularity and becomes unisex. Some other examples include Leslie, Casey, Jordan, Morgan, Addison, and Riley. I can't think of any examples of the reverse off the top of my head.
"Jordan" goes some ways back--there is a woman named Jordan in The Great Gatsby.
And it isn't entirely an American phenomenon: the critic Clive James was named Vivian James at birth, but the actress Vivian Leigh more or less claimed the name for the female sex when Gone With the Wind came out. James or his family fell back on his middle name to spare him teasing.
[2]: Not that any of this really matters of course. Vivian's name just popped to mind for me as I'm a huge fan of his work with Whitesnake and Def Leppard.
> "Jordan" goes some ways back [...] The Great Gatsby
Jordan is a river in the Middle East (also in the Bible) and more recently a country near such river. Like Brooklyn or Paris, it is a topological name that was co-opted into a first name. As such, it could always be used for either sex.
(Yes, Paris is also a male name found in the Iliad, but that doesn't share the etymology with the city of Paris, which is what most people refer to nowadays.)
There are men and women who, at least professionally, just go by Charlie. So it's kind of moot if it's on their birth certificate, you can't tell their gender by name.
Bobby short for Barbara, a secretary who worked at his managers office. He also didn't write it exactly _for_ her, his manager guy had the idea for the name and theme during a conversation with the guy who's secretary was bobby mckee.
He played "Me and Bobby McGee" at the Isle of White festival (1970). For some reason, the audience was not enjoying and he decided to left the stage before the end of the song.
Fantastic moment [1] I enjoy watching semi-frequently.
He did a sketch on SNL back in the day making fun of his scholarly background, suggesting that he originally was going to title his famous song "Bobby McGee and I" before taking a course in "how to speak country".
It's true, but there are more well educated alternative country musicians than one might guess.
Willie Nelson went to Baylor (but didn't finish) and Lyle Lovett has a degree in German literature from Texas A&M. Robert Earl Keen also graduated from A&M. Lucinda Williams's dad is a poet and literature professor. Emmylou Harris went to UNC and Boston University. Hell, even George Straight and Garth Brooks have degrees. That's not quite Rhodes Scholar, but perhaps not entirely expected?
There was a lot of cross pollination between artists and academics in that 60's counterculture crowd. Ken Kesey was a brilliant author who was also on the forefront of experimentation with LSD. John Perry Barlow was a lyricist for the Grateful Dead, and also founded the EFF.
Leonard Cohen was of course a highly educated writer and poet. Brian May is famously a doctor of astrophysics and still has an interest in research. I guess most musicians get laser focussed on it at a young age and don't have the need to study anything else.
He also stood up for Palestinian children and was noticeably blacklisted by some in the showbiz industry for it. Shows you the ideological vengefulness of some in this industry.
Kristofferson's political stand helped ensure that his name received a black mark within the show-business stablishment, as he said, "Particularly in LA, I found a considerable lack of work after doing concerts for the Palestinian children and for a couple of gigs with Vanessa Redgrave and if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it has to be. If you support human rights, you gotta support them everywhere."
I think the interesting difference he brought to the country music scene is typified by Sunday Morning Coming Down, which may have been his first successful hit (for Johnny Cash). Not going to look that up, let's say it's true. It's a depressing song about standing outside of society and community, walking around the edges of it and looking at it, but not wanting to get back in. That song would have broken another way if it were written by someone else.
- Don't care that it was a bomb at the box office, I really enjoyed Heaven's Gate.
Ok, with English as a second language and not familiar with Kris body of works I read this as a quote from a song. Took me way too long to realize the intended meaning. As a line of song lyrics it rocks hard but doesn't really roll off the tongue.
His version of A Star is Born, with Strisand, is a masterpiece that will be sadly overshadowed by the inferior Gaga/Cooper attempt, the 1976 version reaches perfect notes in the height of rock hedonism and it's comedown. Kristifferson nailed it.
In the 90s, he had a meaty part in a John Sayles movie named Lone Star. It's an indie masterpiece; really wonderful. Chris Cooper, Matthew McConaughey, and Elizabeth Peña are in it.
Kris Kristofferson was one of my fav song-writers. For the longest time, I thought _Me and Bobby McGee_ was Janis Joplin's original song, until I learnt it was Kris' writing. He actually wrote it for a woman named Bobby... the rest is history. [1]
A Golden Globe-winning actor, Golden Gloves boxer, Rhodes scholar, author, U.S. Army veteran, pilot, and onetime record-label janitor. A full fledged Renaissance man. They sure don't make 'em like that anymore.
Whattay guy! RIP Kris. Thanks for all the enduring songs!!
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNblxfWTWU4
I once heard or read an interview with him on NPR, saying that he wrote the song at a time when he was working flying helicopters to oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico. This had the odd effect of reminding me of the distance between Baton Rouge and New Orleans, and calling into question size of the truck driver's repertory of songs.
> He actually wrote it for a woman named Bobby...
Bobby being short for... Roberta? But then again, after I recently saw female pop singer Taylor Swift watching male tennis player Taylor Fritz at the US Open, I realized that some American first names are just... flexible.
It's pretty common in the US for a name that is traditionally associated with boys become unisex (Taylor) or even prominently female (Lauren). Typically it is an uncommon male name (so not, e.g. John or Brian) that sees a sudden increase in popularity and becomes unisex. Some other examples include Leslie, Casey, Jordan, Morgan, Addison, and Riley. I can't think of any examples of the reverse off the top of my head.
A chart of this phenomenon for Taylor:
https://engaging-data.com/baby-name-visualizer/?n=taylor&sex...
"Jordan" goes some ways back--there is a woman named Jordan in The Great Gatsby.
And it isn't entirely an American phenomenon: the critic Clive James was named Vivian James at birth, but the actress Vivian Leigh more or less claimed the name for the female sex when Gone With the Wind came out. James or his family fell back on his middle name to spare him teasing.
more or less claimed the name for the female sex when
Not entirely so however. Vivian Campbell[1] is still rocking the "Vivian" name for the male sex[2]!
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivian_Campbell
[2]: Not that any of this really matters of course. Vivian's name just popped to mind for me as I'm a huge fan of his work with Whitesnake and Def Leppard.
> "Jordan" goes some ways back [...] The Great Gatsby
Jordan is a river in the Middle East (also in the Bible) and more recently a country near such river. Like Brooklyn or Paris, it is a topological name that was co-opted into a first name. As such, it could always be used for either sex.
(Yes, Paris is also a male name found in the Iliad, but that doesn't share the etymology with the city of Paris, which is what most people refer to nowadays.)
And Evelyn (as in, e.g., Waugh, who pronounced it EEV-lin).
There's many English names that aren't gendered ex. Morgan, Casey, Charlie, Jayme (plus Taylor and Bobby as mentioned previously)
Charlie is a nickname for Charles and Charlene.
There are men and women who, at least professionally, just go by Charlie. So it's kind of moot if it's on their birth certificate, you can't tell their gender by name.
I would think Charlotte more than Charlene
Bobby short for Barbara, a secretary who worked at his managers office. He also didn't write it exactly _for_ her, his manager guy had the idea for the name and theme during a conversation with the guy who's secretary was bobby mckee.
All this can be seen at the link in gp comment
Even the ones that aren't are flexible.
He played "Me and Bobby McGee" at the Isle of White festival (1970). For some reason, the audience was not enjoying and he decided to left the stage before the end of the song.
Fantastic moment [1] I enjoy watching semi-frequently.
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmk94uooJCU
One of my all time favorites - Jody and the kid! Such a joy whenever I listen to it.
Kristofferson standing up for Sinead O'Connor shortly after her SNL appearance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKeJifOXAnA
He later wrote a song for/about her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HwWDOQoCBM
The guy was a mensch.
Of the uber variety.
For those like me that didn’t know:
>Mensch: Yiddish word for a person of integrity and honor.
A helpful reminder to be a mensch complements of The Critic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMXUavHiLwE
Or just the German word for human being
See also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q08mOo6NFok
Literally a real human bean
Kristofferson said that he would like the first three lines of Leonard Cohen's "Bird on the Wire" on his tombstone:
source: Kristofferson wikipedia pageHis pedigree as a Rhodes scholar always fascinated me. Not many land a helicopter on Johnny Cash's lawn.
He did a sketch on SNL back in the day making fun of his scholarly background, suggesting that he originally was going to title his famous song "Bobby McGee and I" before taking a course in "how to speak country".
It's true, but there are more well educated alternative country musicians than one might guess.
Willie Nelson went to Baylor (but didn't finish) and Lyle Lovett has a degree in German literature from Texas A&M. Robert Earl Keen also graduated from A&M. Lucinda Williams's dad is a poet and literature professor. Emmylou Harris went to UNC and Boston University. Hell, even George Straight and Garth Brooks have degrees. That's not quite Rhodes Scholar, but perhaps not entirely expected?
For reference: List of artists and entertainers with advanced degrees – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_and_entertaine...
There was a lot of cross pollination between artists and academics in that 60's counterculture crowd. Ken Kesey was a brilliant author who was also on the forefront of experimentation with LSD. John Perry Barlow was a lyricist for the Grateful Dead, and also founded the EFF.
Leonard Cohen was of course a highly educated writer and poet. Brian May is famously a doctor of astrophysics and still has an interest in research. I guess most musicians get laser focussed on it at a young age and don't have the need to study anything else.
He also stood up for Palestinian children and was noticeably blacklisted by some in the showbiz industry for it. Shows you the ideological vengefulness of some in this industry.
Kristofferson's political stand helped ensure that his name received a black mark within the show-business stablishment, as he said, "Particularly in LA, I found a considerable lack of work after doing concerts for the Palestinian children and for a couple of gigs with Vanessa Redgrave and if that's the way it has to be, that's the way it has to be. If you support human rights, you gotta support them everywhere."
(Kristofferson: The Wild American)
I think the interesting difference he brought to the country music scene is typified by Sunday Morning Coming Down, which may have been his first successful hit (for Johnny Cash). Not going to look that up, let's say it's true. It's a depressing song about standing outside of society and community, walking around the edges of it and looking at it, but not wanting to get back in. That song would have broken another way if it were written by someone else.
That dude didn't leave much on the table, in terms of life experiences. RIP.
Don't care that it was a bomb at the box office, I really enjoyed Heaven's Gate.
I also loved Convoy. My kids and I still troll my wife by including the theme song on almost every playlist we create.
- Don't care that it was a bomb at the box office, I really enjoyed Heaven's Gate.
Ok, with English as a second language and not familiar with Kris body of works I read this as a quote from a song. Took me way too long to realize the intended meaning. As a line of song lyrics it rocks hard but doesn't really roll off the tongue.
edit: of > off
His part in Blade was pretty good too. I'm surprised he wasn't (type) cast more often for grizzled dude or a pirate.
"You ever seen a duck that couldn't swim? Quack, quack!"
It's still one of my favorite "I can't sleep" movies.
His version of A Star is Born, with Strisand, is a masterpiece that will be sadly overshadowed by the inferior Gaga/Cooper attempt, the 1976 version reaches perfect notes in the height of rock hedonism and it's comedown. Kristifferson nailed it.
https://youtu.be/FbVXxuykP_M?si=7bQbtVgcU3IrGJev
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Kristofferson
Convoy was the first film I've watched on VHS, which was magic, around ~1984.
"I am the law" quote is burnt into my brain thanks in part to the fanmade music video for Orange Goblin - Rage of Angels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrizqjkSADM
That's a great link, thanks.
Have to admit I'd not heard of Orange Goblin before but I'm headed for a journey threw their back catalogue now starting with The Wolf Bites Back.
What a wonderfully insane movie.
In the 90s, he had a meaty part in a John Sayles movie named Lone Star. It's an indie masterpiece; really wonderful. Chris Cooper, Matthew McConaughey, and Elizabeth Peña are in it.
Convoy changed my life
His cover of Brandi Carlile's Turpentine is fantastic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDruf7aDk4E
Liked him in Blade!
Same, I savour every moment of him in Blade 1
I recently saw him in Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. Great movie, strong early performance from Kristofferson.
I mean this sincerely: it's my favorite Scorsese film. I don't think many people would say that.
No mention of Payback yet - great movie.
Two days younger than my grandmother... time to call her.
RIP Kris Kristofferson, thanks for another song
https://youtu.be/vHReBUA8cH4
should not be on "Hacker News"
Maggie Smith was on here yesterday. Cultural icons touch everyone.
Well, except for people with Asperger's who don't care about pop culture. ;o)
> Quack, quack! ... You ever see a duck couldn't swim? —MP